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Old 07-06-2012, 03:16 AM   #51
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The Obozo administration has thrown billions of dollars at green jobs.(at campaign donors) How's that worked out?

For those who only hear about these failing companies one by one, the following is a list of all the clean energy companies supported by President Obama’s stimulus that are now failing or have filed for bankruptcy. The liberal media hopes you’ve forgotten about all of them except Solyndra, but we haven’t.

Evergreen Solar

SpectraWatt

Solyndra (received $535 million)

Beacon Power (received $43 million)

AES’ subsidiary Eastern Energy

Nevada Geothermal (received $98.5 million)

SunPower (received $1.5 billion)

First Solar (received $1.46 billion)

Babcock & Brown (an Australian company which received $178 million)

Ener1 (subsidiary EnerDel received $118.5 million)

Amonix (received 5.9 million)

The National Renewable Energy Lab

Fisker Automotive

Abound Solar (received $400 million)

Chevy Volt (taxpayers basically own GM)

Solar Trust of America

A123 Systems (received $279 million)

Willard & Kelsey Solar Group (received $6 million)

Johnson Controls (received $299 million)

Schneider Electric (received $86 million)


That’s 19 (that we know of so far). We also know that loans went to foreign clean energy companies (Fisker sent money to their overseas plant to develop an electric car), and that 80% of these loans went to President Obama’s campaign donors.



http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2012/06/obama-green-failures-other-18-err-19.html
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:39 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by towboater View Post
The Obozo administration has thrown billions of dollars at green jobs.(at campaign donors) How's that worked out?

http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2012/06/obama-green-failures-other-18-err-19.html
So you are equating Gov't cronyism, waste and fraud with the idea that we should not be striving for energy independence? By your reasoning were you calling for the heads of Bush and Cheney when they set up their energy policies with the Oil and Gas industries and the deregulation in in the late 90's and early 2000's? How many billions upon billions were wasted/lost by the Bush administration then?

How about just about any other industry in America - agriculture, automotive, health, pharmaceutical, transportation, education .. seriously what industry does not get Fed subsidies? And what program do the Fed's run that is not corrupt to it's core?

I think it will take a bigger change in attitude than cost and effort to get us energy independent. But think on this - most here on FTF espouse Gov't role in providing for people, yet some of you insist on being beholden to the Utility companies and the energy policies we have today because why?

That kind of thinking smacks of hypocracy I'll get off my box now, this thread has unfortunately gone beyond irrational
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Old 07-06-2012, 03:44 AM   #53
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Oil drilling and production is 150 years old. These fields many still producing others were cleaned up by private funds. Oil production came about due to the high cost of Whale oil. Oil allowed the ordinary folks to have lights, jobs and automobiles. This Dooms Day scare about running out is a fairy tale. There are 100s of years of Natural Gas that will be used to off set any fuel shortages. Millions are being invested and jobs are being created today for the new NG plants and fuel service stations. You will be able to fuel your car from your home NG service with a $230 dollar compressor. New plants and projects being produced here in the western U.S. are 2 years away. This is being done with private dollars not Federal waste.
My ranch truck is a 97 f350 with a 460 an runs on natural gas i fill it up at my friends house near town. I have propane at the ranch or i would be set.
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:09 AM   #54
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I have a smaller home so my energy use is fairly low. Here is a solar power calculator from my electric company instead of someone trying to sell you something.
http://www.aps.com/main/services/nexus/SCdefault.html?t=R

The cost has went down! Now they say I should break even in just over 27 years(if I never spend anything on maintenance.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:18 AM   #55
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That dog2000tj don't hunt. Just parrots vast leftwing conspiracy rhetoric.

Want energy independence, put someone else in the White House and close the EPA and Dept. of Energy.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:25 AM   #56
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Want energy independence? Do it yourself.
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Old 07-06-2012, 11:59 AM   #57
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I have a smaller home so my energy use is fairly low. Here is a solar power calculator from my electric company instead of someone trying to sell you something.
http://www.aps.com/main/services/nexus/SCdefault.html?t=R

The cost has went down! Now they say I should break even in just over 27 years(if I never spend anything on maintenance.
You do realize that your power company makes money by selling you electricity and they would lose money if you went solar.
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Old 08-04-2012, 12:30 AM   #58
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This is such a great discussion. I have to agree with Dogs opinions on many of the issues.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that in the lifetime of humanity, we have experienced many, many, many instances that threatened our survival, let alone our way of life. Every time, we've figured out a solution.

The problem is that it's not a big enough problem yet. To some it may seem monumental and I others it's trivial. Only when it's a brig enough problem to be a problem to everyone will we make the changes as a whole.

As a nation, it may be too late, I don't know. But as a species, I have faith in us. We are a highly adaptive bunch. I just hope we don't wait too long, to the point where the cost becomes measured in terms of lives lost.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:14 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by PerpetualStudent View Post
This is such a great discussion. I have to agree with Dogs opinions on many of the issues.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that in the lifetime of humanity, we have experienced many, many, many instances that threatened our survival, let alone our way of life. Every time, we've figured out a solution.

The problem is that it's not a big enough problem yet. To some it may seem monumental and I others it's trivial. Only when it's a brig enough problem to be a problem to everyone will we make the changes as a whole.

As a nation, it may be too late, I don't know. But as a species, I have faith in us. We are a highly adaptive bunch. I just hope we don't wait too long, to the point where the cost becomes measured in terms of lives lost.
I wish I could be as optimistic as you. Humans as a species have successfully dealt with natural disasters, but our experience with man made disasters are limited to the 20th century and we barley made it through that century. Humans as a species have never had to deal with man made biological weapons or nuclear war. We have the ability today to cause our own extinction without even trying. We can do it by accident. So I'm not feeling to good about the next 100 years.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:22 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by PerpetualStudent View Post
This is such a great discussion. I have to agree with Dogs opinions on many of the issues.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that in the lifetime of humanity, we have experienced many, many, many instances that threatened our survival, let alone our way of life. Every time, we've figured out a solution.

The problem is that it's not a big enough problem yet. To some it may seem monumental and I others it's trivial. Only when it's a brig enough problem to be a problem to everyone will we make the changes as a whole.

As a nation, it may be too late, I don't know. But as a species, I have faith in us. We are a highly adaptive bunch. I just hope we don't wait too long, to the point where the cost becomes measured in terms of lives lost.
I wish I could be as optimistic as you. Humans as a species have successfully dealt with natural disasters, but our experience with man made disasters are limited to the 20th century and we barley made it through that century. Humans as a species have never had to deal with man made biological weapons or nuclear war. We have the ability today to cause our own extinction without even trying. We can do it by accident. So I'm not feeling to good about the next 100 years.
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