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Old 07-03-2012, 10:04 PM   #11
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Green Energy would be a fable if it weren't actually a vast leftwing conspiracy to control people and enrich itself.

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Old 07-04-2012, 12:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durangokid View Post
Vincine Thx for using my post regards. . . . . . . . . . . Supporters of Obama are making a fortune.
I didn’t say I thought the big wind mills were good, or not. I said I didn’t find them ugly. I think you’re confusing my appreciation of a windmill’s simple clean lines, as compared to other powerplants, as approval.

While the Adirondacks may not be pristine as Wyoming, they are pretty damm BEAUTIFUL. There is a wind farm up here just outside the park that I drive through on occasion. The first time I saw the mills was a hazy day with low hanging cloud cover They snuck up on me out of the fog. You couldn’t see the hubs of the mills. What you saw were the big bases, and the end of the blades as they slowly came down out of the clouds, arced around the bottom of their travel, and disappeared back into the ceiling.

They looked like something that was planted here from another planet. The scale seemed off, way off. If you can imagine an open town board meeting being held in a first grade classroom, with all the grown-ups sitting in the kids chairs. That's what these things, sprouting up out of the fields and behind the farm houses & barns, looked like. I thought they were BIG. Really BIG. Astonishingly BIG. I thought they were most bizarre, but I didn’t think they were ugly, not like other kinds of power plants would have been scattered around the area.

As far as costs. I would prefer that ‘$70 dollar per kilowatt’ be given to me to install my own generating ability. I’m stating I think we'd be better off if we could pull our energy right out of the sky, household by household, and not be subject to forces outside our communities. I think big power plants create dependency instead of independence, whether they’re green or not.

The photos below were taken with a wide angle lens. They don't give a true idea of the size. Imagine the width of one of the bases is twice as wide as the house, and then extrapolate their height from that.
eolienellenburg2009-30.jpg   ellenburgwindhouse.jpg  
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincine
I didn’t say I thought the big wind mills were good, or not. I said I didn’t find them ugly. I think you’re confusing my appreciation of a windmill’s simple clean lines, as compared to other powerplants, as approval.

While the Adirondacks may not be pristine as Wyoming, they are pretty damm BEAUTIFUL. There is a wind farm up here just outside the park that I drive through on occasion. The first time I saw the mills was a hazy day with low hanging cloud cover They snuck up on me out of the fog. You couldn’t see the hubs of the mills. What you saw were the big bases, and the end of the blades as they slowly came down out of the clouds, arced around the bottom of their travel, and disappeared back into the ceiling.

They looked like something that was planted here from another planet. The scale seemed off, way off. If you can imagine an open town board meeting being held in a first grade classroom, with all the grown-ups sitting in the kids chairs. That what these things, sprouting up out of the fields and behind the farm houses & barns, looked like. I thought they were BIG. Really BIG. Astonishingly BIG. I thought they were most bizarre, but I didn’t think they were ugly, not like other kinds of power plants would have been scattered around the area.

As far as costs. I would prefer that ‘$70 dollar per kilowatt’ be given to me to install my own generating ability. I’m stating I think we'd be better off if we could pull our energy right out of the sky, household by household, and not be subject to forces outside our communities. I think big power plants create dependency instead of independence, whether they’re green or not.

The photos below were taken with a wide angle lens. They don't give a true idea of the size. Image the width of one of the bases is twice as wide as the house, and then extrapolate their height from that.
They make the blades close to where I work, and I see them all the time on the highway. They are big. REAL f'ing big. Here's a pic for scale....



image-3779141493.jpg

I pulled the pic off of the net, but that's how they move them around here also.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:29 AM   #14
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Photo I took in San Diego. Watching the cranes on the ship unloading the wind generators. Think these were Japanese.

scaffold-046.jpg

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Old 07-04-2012, 06:33 AM   #15
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Back in the 1960s the Wind Mills were going to replace every energy product. The Government gave big checks and tax breaks as they are now doing. The Power companies make a killing on these deals. The Feds pay the overhead and the power is fed into the grid where it brings market price. The poor taxpayer is paying twice for his morning toast. The Power Company is then allowed to exempt the profits. We were doing drive systems for the Medicine Bow Wyoming project. When the Tax breaks were removed Florida Power walked away. They left the breaks open and the damn things destroyed themselves. For years the great piles of iron littered the plains. And yes the Taxpayers cleaned up the mess. The results of this will be very high home electric bills. Too bad we had it pretty good.

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Old 07-04-2012, 06:54 AM   #16
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Solar powered Sterling engine. Check it out.

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Old 07-04-2012, 09:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandler51

They make the blades close to where I work, and I see them all the time on the highway. They are big. REAL f'ing big. Here's a pic for scale....

I pulled the pic off of the net, but that's how they move them around here also.
They also make them in pueblo colorado as well as in brighton co
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muliemaster

They also make them in pueblo colorado as well as in brighton co
Have you seen them being hauled? MAN! The first time I saw one on the highway, I wasn't sure I wanted to drive past it. (I did tho).
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandler51

Have you seen them being hauled? MAN! The first time I saw one on the highway, I wasn't sure I wanted to drive past it. (I did tho).
I have hauled several times, but heavy haul isnt my cup of tea, to much dealings with dot for me
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Old 07-05-2012, 01:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincine View Post
This is a response to a post in the ‘What are going to be the new currencies?’ thread that I thought got away from the topic. So I started this one.

(Personally I don’t think the ‘Hippie Mixmasters’ are ugly, not anywhere near as much as a coal fired plant, they’re just not needed.)

I think the problem with wind, and other renewable energy sources, is that power companies want to be able to sell it. So they apply their investment capital and lobbying efforts toward centralized power plants, or wind ‘farms’ etc., I.e. their power plants. The last thing they want is the development of a simple and effective off the shelf energy storage capability available to the ordinary homeowner. Individually, homeowners don’t have the clout to swing the needed development themselves.

A generator is just a motor ‘running backwards’. Homesteads used to have windmills to bring the water up. Is it really so out of the pale to think one could gear a generator off the shaft of such a windmill, instead of the mill pumping water up from the table? A water tank could even be the energy storage. The water could spin a couple of small turbines in series on it's way back into the well.

I bet small weather proof ‘fans’ could be mounted on the peaks of roofs the way small satellite dishes are now. Heck, I bet a turbine vent caps could even be rigged to do it.

Between small wind generators spinning whenever the wind’s up, day or night; small solar panels generating power whenever the sun’s out, a simple and cost effective storage devices available at the hardware store, more energy efficient electrical devices in the home & judicious use of same; I’d bet a homeowner/steader could make a serious dent in their energy usage. What utility company wants that?

You’d think the real estate companies would be all over this pushing the technology. Think of all the land that’s cheap because it’s so far from the grid, that would increase in value if homeowners could easily generate their own.

The reason for the huge windmill farms or any other centralized power plant exists is, of course, that’s the simplest way utility companies can make money off of it.

That's a good point. I never thought about the decentralization of power literally.

Now, I can't help but to wonder how things would have turned out if Edison had won the debate with Westinghouse over DC and AC. Edison wanted small localized power plants to produce DC, which can't travel long distances like AC. And isn't decentralization what makes the Internet so great, and protected from attacks?
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