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Old 12-04-2010, 09:57 PM   #21
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You guys should all move to switzerland. You'd like it there. Every male under 50 is part of the militia, they have the most emplaced guns per square mile, bomb shelters in every city, are trilingual, in the most naturally defended place in the world, give you full auto weapons, expect you to take care of yourself, control the world's wealth, and decide the value of gold each day.

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Old 12-05-2010, 11:04 AM   #22
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@ bkt I agree that it would be prefferable for money to be backed by a limited resource (such as gold and silver) again but what I was trying to say was that to destroy the amount of money the world would need to to get it back that way would involve literally taking peoples money from them. Which i dont think would fly.

I guess it wasn't 1 trillion dollars. I watched a show about it a while back and couldnt remember the amount it came to but i thought it was 1 trillion. But that is another reason not many countries would be willing to go along with going back to the gold standard. America would be indisputably more powerful than any country on earth.. Hell probably more powerful than all the other countries on earth combined. I would prefer this and im sure you would too but people in other countries would probably have a problem with that. It would affect other countries far more than it would affect America. The value of their money would plummet much farther than even the Dollar would. Hence why there would probably be a massive war over it. However if America could go back to the gold standard and do it in a such a way to not cause people to actually lose money (value wise not quantitively) and explain it to them in such a way as they knew they where not losing money. Than that would be ideal.

I agree with what you say bkt, i just dont think it is possible in todays society.

@Ploofy There was a thread not to long ago about going to switzerland. I don't know about you but I am not old enough and definately do not make enough money to become a citizen there.

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Old 12-06-2010, 07:26 PM   #23
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You guys should all move to switzerland. You'd like it there. Every male under 50 is part of the militia, they have the most emplaced guns per square mile, bomb shelters in every city, are trilingual, in the most naturally defended place in the world, give you full auto weapons, expect you to take care of yourself, control the world's wealth, and decide the value of gold each day.
Moving to Switzerland

pretty well detailed website.
I was thinking on doing that a while ago. lol
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:10 PM   #24
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@ bkt I agree that it would be prefferable for money to be backed by a limited resource (such as gold and silver) again but what I was trying to say was that to destroy the amount of money the world would need to to get it back that way would involve literally taking peoples money from them. Which i dont think would fly.
Well, there are two concerns here. The first concerns the value of the dollar and the second concerns the number of dollars.

Adjusting wages and prices significantly downward would be necessary to go back on a gold standard. We get fewer dollars in our paycheck and the stuff we buy would require fewer dollars because the value of the dollar will have risen.

In regard to the number of dollars, as in outstanding debt or loans, these can certainly be adjusted (indexed) to the new value of the dollar. A $50,000 loan in 2010 dollars would get knocked down to a $2,300 loan, for example.

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I guess it wasn't 1 trillion dollars. I watched a show about it a while back and couldnt remember the amount it came to but i thought it was 1 trillion. But that is another reason not many countries would be willing to go along with going back to the gold standard.
Other countries may do as they please. The U.S. should go back on a metals standard (the bi-metals standard of gold and silver with a 16:1 ratio would be fine.)

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America would be indisputably more powerful than any country on earth..
Two questions: How is that different from today? And why is that a bad thing? We don't need anyone's permission to adjust our currency and back it by metals. Anyone with old currency (or old electronic dollars) may convert it to new currency that is gold-backed.

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I would prefer this and im sure you would too but people in other countries would probably have a problem with that. It would affect other countries far more than it would affect America.
I don't see it that way. The dollar's value has degraded over 97% since 1913. It continues to weaken today. Why would China and Japan object to adjusting the number of dollars they hold if the value of the new calculated amount is backed by tangible wealth that won't degrade in value? I would think they would welcome this. All the (modified) T-bills they have would suddenly become desirable again.

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The value of their money would plummet much farther than even the Dollar would.
Their value relative to the dollar would plummet, yes. But nothing would change relative to other commodities: it would still cost the same amount of Yuan or Euros or Dinars to buy a barrel of oil or ounce of gold or a potato.

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Hence why there would probably be a massive war over it.
Nope, I'm not seeing it. I'm not saying you're wrong, but the new dollar adjustment wouldn't have to be perceived as a bad thing. We could return to a gold/silver standard if the clowns in D.C. weren't nefarious and/or mortally stupid pricks.

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However if America could go back to the gold standard and do it in a such a way to not cause people to actually lose money (value wise not quantitively) and explain it to them in such a way as they knew they where not losing money. Than that would be ideal.
That's exactly what I'm saying is possible.

Have a look at this paper from Gary North. In particular, have a look at chapter 12.
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:28 AM   #25
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Sorry, I thought we covered that in other threads a while back. They're worth a look.

In a nutshell:
  • Become as self-reliant as possible by having a good store of canned and dry food, clothing, consumables, fuel, etc.
  • Become as self-sufficient as possible by learning how to grow, hunt and fish, learning basic medical procedures, and how to make things you depend on and buy at the store
  • Pay off your debt
  • Have a few like-minded friends near you who you can meet up with in a SHTF scenario
  • Have bug-out bags and a stocked bug-out location
  • Be well-armed, whether for hunting food or repelling animals (as in the video above)
  • Have a store of wealth (gold and silver). No, you can't eat it, but in time things will begin to resemble "normal" again and you'll want to convert the metals into the currency of the day.
That'll get you started. There are many ways just a short-term problem can make your life uncomfortable. In preparing for it and focusing on being as self-sufficient as possible, you also mitigate longer-term more serious problems.


At what other time in American history has such a large percentage of the population been unable to prepare a meal from scratch? Hunt? Clean a fish? Grow a friggin' tomato plant?

Things have been worse before in some ways. But we are in uncharted waters.


Are you familiar with zerohedge? I'm guessing you're not.


I just googled tickle-me-elmo and killed/death/murder and didn't see any reports of folks killing others over the last toy. Can you point me to a link or two about this?

Even so, the point is that even back a few years ago Americans were as clueless as they are today.


What is money? That's a serious question. What is it? Is it debt? If so, America is king.

Our currency is based on debt. Seriously. If you think this is a good thing and a good position to maneuver from, great. You and I aren't likely to see eye-to-eye.


Oh, I encourage people to hedge against the devaluation of the dollar, to purchase things that will help them live better and save money in the long run whether things get bad or not, and to diversify where they store their wealth.

But buying cheap Chinese crap from Wal-Mart? Not so much. If that's your thing, knock yourself out.


Sticks and stones.
Quite possibly the best and most succinct, albeit detailed, response I've seen yet. Thanks for sharing the checklist and I hope to read your posts in other survival threads.
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:45 AM   #26
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However that would never happen. So the best we have is to spend our money, not horde it waiting for the "end".

Fear mongerers, doom sayers, and sensationalists. These are the true destroyers of America.
Cory,
I like where your heads at because you are declaring a need for change and not allowing yourself to fall victim to fear. "Spunk" or maybe "spirit" is what I'd call it. BUT I think you may have misinterpreted the video, and speaking for myself, the interpretation of the video.

- I did not take it as "spending is bad" and we are pushing for fear, but more so that mindless spending on well-marketed but ultimately non-beneficial consumer goods is bad.
- It's not that we should all horde our money, but that we should reduce our debt to secure our country's stability (Canada, or USA).
- Its not about ditching the other currencies of the world, but evolving our fiscal policy to reflect the new world.
- Most importantly, its about not depending on businesses or the market for everything down to wiping our butts. Don't get me wrong business and commerce is essential, its what made our countries strong, and it provides us with all the useful, and luxurious things that we have. But we should use those products by choice and not by necessity. Buy meat from a butcher, but know how to do it yourself. buy clothes from a store, but have a idea of how to make your own, in this way you are truly free! A free person is a person who has choice to do as they please. If you do not have the talent or knowledge to do anything on your own, then you are a slave (like the video people). Running through stores on sale days like dogs at a dinner table looking for scraps.

The point of the video was not about doom and gloom, but about reorganizing our priorities to remain strong and free: without debt, buying items of value to our survival/and not just luxury, and being self-sufficient at least in basics - giving people the ability to use business by choice and not necessity. Using business as a tool for our benefit and not a crutch to our destruction.
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:23 AM   #27
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@ But that is another reason not many countries would be willing to go along with going back to the gold standard. America would be indisputably more powerful than any country on earth.. Hell probably more powerful than all the other countries on earth combined.
Interesting arguement, and one that I hadn't thought about. Personally I agree with Cory on this one. While I too would prefer a Gold Standard as it used to be, I think that the amount of effort required to move back would be too much for any government to handle effectively. Like Cory said, people would think that big brother or the corporations will get the best deal and that they're stealing Average Joes money, and of course there is the international community that CANNOT be ignored. Just doing it without regard for how others respond is not wise in this international economy. It's not even that its not possible, BKT, anything is possible to do, but it's convincing people that it's a good deal. Unfortunately people have a mob mentality, and many don't live in a state of mind that can allow them to think logically. In the end, it doesn't matter if its good or not, but its how people will perceive it - and people always fear change.

Overall, stocking up on bullion personally is the best bet for the future instead of hoping for a changed currency. Now that we know the weaknesses of the 'legal tender" system we can prepare ourselves.

PS Sorry for the back 2 back posts, I'm just really into this thread!
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Old 12-15-2010, 01:47 AM   #28
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I can remember a German citizen with a wheel barrow full of money and could not afford a loaf of bread. That money ain't worth the cloth it's printed on!!!!!!!!!
I remember that from history class..........
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:33 AM   #29
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When the price of gold collapses and fiat currencies self destruct... a new flavor of precious metals will emerge. Lead, Copper, Brass. Stock up.
Long term survival will require detailed knowlege with livestock and farming. That's a whole different thread.

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Old 12-18-2010, 06:09 AM   #30
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Default Sounds like heaven...but what about us 50 & over?!

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You guys should all move to switzerland. You'd like it there. Every male under 50 is part of the militia, they have the most emplaced guns per square mile, bomb shelters in every city, are trilingual, in the most naturally defended place in the world, give you full auto weapons, expect you to take care of yourself, control the world's wealth, and decide the value of gold each day.
(I entered the "old fart club" this year) by turning 50!
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