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-   -   Closing the Collapse Gap (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f51/closing-collapse-gap-74756/)

Bigcountry02 10-21-2012 04:03 AM

Closing the Collapse Gap
 
This is a presentation between the USSR and the US. It talks about the Closing the 'Collapse Gap': the USSR was better prepared for collapse than the US.

The presentation was done in 2006.

http://energybulletin.net/stories/2006-12-04/closing-collapse-gap-ussr-was-better-prepared-collapse-us

bkt 10-21-2012 12:22 PM

Thanks for that - very, very interesting. Pages 12, 13 and 15 are pretty obvious and of concern to me and others who are trying to become more self-sufficient. It's hard enough to do when times are relatively good. It will be quite a challenge when times are bad.

Vincine 10-21-2012 01:45 PM

I donít know if we were importing ď. . . 65% of our oil & a lot of natural gas . . .Ē energy in 2006. In 2011 we were down to importing 45% or 11.9 million of barrels a day (Mb/d), but that is offset by our exporting 2.9 Mb/d a day in distillates. If my math is correct (NOT really a safe presumption) that means our oil imports are actually around 33%. And then I donít know how much of our oil imports, are actually paid for because of the value added income from the distillate exports.

Outside of the above, and while Iím not as familiar with the details of the Soviet collapse, his observation of the US situation is more or less the same as mine, and I hold the same conclusion. Bottom line? Exit the system. Leave the casino. Even if there isnít an economic collapse, abrupt or drawn out, youíll be better off, at least if freedom to live the way you want is what you want.

Now Ďno man is an islandí, etc., and it would be extraordinarily time consuming to attempt to provide everything you need for yourself, by yourself. So some amount of community is needed. And this is the genesis of my interest and efforts toward increased community self-sufficiency.

TLuker 10-22-2012 02:50 AM

That was very interesting. It's always nice to here a different perspective on things and the author, being from Russia, had a very different perspective. However, I have to disagree with a couple of his observations.

Yes we are dependent on cars and oil for transportation rather than public transportation, but that is due to American ingenuity and free markets. Russia never had a Henry Ford and so Russia never had cheap cars and energy available to the masses. I'm not sure I would call our markets free today but we still have some pretty innovative people (like the guys from Google).

Americans are also more educated and literate than he gives us credit for. We might still be stupid as a whole but we can read, even if we are reading the Enquirer (or something equally stupid).

Overall though he was right about us being less prepared for a collapse, and that all empires collapse at some point. We're also not looking very good right now. As a whole we are far to dependent on our shaky economic system. For that reason I'm with Vincine on "Leave the casino". That really is a great analogy of what we've become as a nation.

I'm not working toward increased community self-sufficiency, but I am working towards family self-sufficiency and personal self-sufficiency. The more I can do for myself the more freedom I have. There's also a personal sense of achievement in being able to produce what you need, and want. :)

jyo 10-28-2012 12:21 AM

Let's face it---the Russians are more prepared for economic collapse then us simply because they are used to a lot more hardships than even the poorest Americans---we generally have a much higher standard of living then they do and a lot more freedoms. That said, because of our freedoms, we are "free" to be abused by our banking system, credit card companies, oil producers, housing markets, stock markets, etc.
I still vote for living in the USA!

TrueNorth 10-28-2012 03:26 AM

Hey Bigcountry02,

first off - I love your photo. Please introduce me to her next time we meet! (If ever we do :) )

Interesting topic, and pov. What do you think that America needs to do to mitigate these risks as a nation? I personally believe that budget control is required both at the federal level - and the personal level. That alone would help lower the trade deficit, avoid major banking fluctuations, and stabilize the economy - albeit at a rate of growth lower than I think most people are used to. (Life can't be growing at a fast pace forever when that growth is funded by debt).

As far as oil/energy consumption is concerned America uses far more than it produces, but it's greatest ally (Canada of course) has the largest oil reserves of the free world ( by which I mean outside of the Middle East). It would be a good idea to facilitate trade with canada and continue to push for economic integration with your neighbor and in so doing reduce your import from "unsafe sources". Less dependence on unstable nations, replaced by cooperation with your allies. Also it would stop sending money to people who then send it to terrorists... just saying.

So, debt control (not by taces but by reduced spending) at the Federal, State and personal household levels, nd increased cooperation with your allies. A social re-engineering to stop buying from hostile nations, and buy more conservatively, would prevent a collapse.

After that, perhaps a school program that forces all american school children to learn certain skills - farming, marksmanship, tradeskills, first aid - proper financial planning - these could be brought into the public school system to teach people the skills required to survive that way the entire society is built on the skills necessary to live, in addtion to the skills to prosper in a modern society (reading, writing, math, science etc.) that are already taught.

FYI Canada needs to do the same, generally. We might have less debt, less trade with China and virtually no import of mid-east oil, but we still have debt, trade deficit, and a loss of usable skills being taught in schools.

bkt 10-28-2012 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueNorth (Post 992628)
Hey Bigcountry02,FYI Canada needs to do the same, generally. We might have less debt, less trade with China and virtually no import of mid-east oil, but we still have debt, trade deficit, and a loss of usable skills being taught in schools.

Within the last year or two I read a lot of Canada's wealth was based in U.S. dollars and U.S. securities. So while you guys may be doing things right, if a big percentage of your wealth is tied up in U.S. holdings - and we are NOT doing things right - then you could still find your economy circling the drain. Hopefully, Canada has modified its holdings strategy.

hiwall 10-28-2012 04:48 PM

He doesn't really talk about if the US collapse would/will collapse most other countries. Why does everyone know its coming but no one in the media will even mention it?

Bigcountry02 10-29-2012 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueNorth (Post 992628)
Hey Bigcountry02,

first off - I love your photo. Please introduce me to her next time we meet! (If ever we do :) )

Thanks!

Found that from Germany Munich beerfest time. I have some older pics when I stationed in Germany.

The document was from 2006, passing some information from what others did a comparison.

Biggest issue is the economy, I am not just saying United States; but, more on the global scale. Companies are scaling back both in indsutry and in people.

The spending and waste has gotten way out of hand. It is not just US; but, the world has become a throw-away society.

Education, people are taught memorization techniques; instead, of understanding and applying what is learned.

Vincine 10-29-2012 10:39 AM

Digression
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigcountry02 (Post 993794)
. . . . .Education, people are taught memorization techniques; instead, of understanding and applying what is learned. . . .

It's hard to play sports or do dance well if you're not an athlete. It's hard to be a musician or singer if you're tone deaf. It's hard to be a painter if you're color blind.

For many, critical thinking is harder to learn, or at least practice, and for those people, I think maybe it is harder to teach, especially when context isn't fully understood by the teacher. (Is five coma's in one sentence allowed?) Memorization is easier to measure.

Most of the world still prefers to live with blind faith over the Scientific Method, Harvard Business Management, Nursing Process, or whatever you want to call it. It's not possible to personally test everything. Faith, of whatever kind, and allows one to get on with their life.


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