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Old 08-26-2008, 10:49 PM   #1
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Default Bug Out Threats From Your Own Gov?

BUG OUT THREATS FROM YOUR OWN GOV?

> More and more of the survivalist /self reliance/ communities and groups
are
> considering a threat to their personal privacy and security is now in the
> hands of their own governments or global governmental organisations.( UN/
> WHO / Nato/ EU etc)
>
> People are starting to question the intentions of these bodies as they
> introduce ever more intrusive laws involving monitoring of the population
as
> it goes about its lawful daily business. Monitoring is the first step in
> controlling a populations freedom to move about freely.
>
> The usual excuses are to help detect and prevent crime, or to improve the
> flow of traffic.
>
> Its the definition of the phrase " criminal " that is worrying, no one is
to
> worried if it helps track down shop lifters, or car jackers, but what if
its
> the state deciding it is people who are simply outspoken against the govt
in
> question. Perhaps it could even be something like your government not
wanting
> people to flee/ evacuate/ or bug out from the town in case it interferes
> with military or other traffic movements.
>
> CCTV systems on roads, freeways, motorways etc are now in theory being
> becoming capable of tracking the individual movements of single vehicles
> from start to finish of the vehicles journey. Malls and other public
places
> have surveillance systems that use computer programs that can identify and
> name people from cctv stills if their details are stored on a database.
>
> Britain is becoming notorious for its erosion of its citizens rights, from
> the failed attempts to reduce gun crime by stripping law abiding citizens
of
> the right to own guns, to some of the blanket coverage anti terrorism laws
> that can just as easily be used to subjugate the population as well as its
> fights terrorists. A few current example are the suggestion that all roads
> and highways right across the nation become toll roads charging vehicles
> automatically ever time they venture down any given route. They talk about
> black boxes compulsorily fitted to all vehicles that sent an ID code and
pin
> number to these black boxes sited on every junction along the road
network.
> Another option being actively considered is using similar back boxes
linked
> to satellites to monitor the movements of every vehicle and charging them
a
> toll automatically at the end of each journey. If you think those two
> systems in themselves are bad enough but before they are even off the
> drawing boards the Police are saying they would like the systems linked
> together to the DVLC ( vehicle registration bureau) the police computer
> network and the motorway camera system. In Britain at this very time if an
> ordinary cop on duty at an airport takes a dislike to you all he has to do
> is say he believes you MAY be a soccer hooligan preparing to travel abroad
> to cause trouble, if he does that he can seize your passport there and
then
> stopping you from going overseas.
>
> ( On a side note , It is very amusing to me that many Americans still
think
> of Britain as a freedom loving democracy, So long as the US govt continues
> to support extremist governments then freedom will continue to die out)
>
> The paranoia coming from the aviation industry in response to the horrors
of
> 9 11 and Bali is understood, but some of the intrusive actions taken
against
> legitimate and law abiding citizens is at the very least draconian.
>
> So where does this leave the survivalist in his plans to use his retreat /
> holiday home/ camping trailer etc, At the moment it is still fairly easily
> to drive from A to B without attracting undue attention or to be followed
/
> monitored but it is getting harder.
> Again using Britain as an example the City of London has so many CCTV
> cameras now that they authorities can follow any vehicle from one side to
> the other without a break in camera coverage, add this to the armed police
> checkpoints set up in response to IRA terrorism you can see how its
becoming
> harder for city dwellers to move about or bug out in secret, This gets
worse
> because the underground is heaving with CCTV cameras and transport cops,
the
> airports are almost no go areas for outdoors folk travelling with their
kit.
> The M25 orbital motorway ( Like Washington's Beltway) that surrounds
London
> is very well covered on all on and off ramps with cameras, the road is
> heavily patrolled, and their is usually lots of air cover as well. Many
> cities, towns and main highways in Britain and the US are covered
completely
> by CCTV cameras and aviation monitors this in my mind is simply creating a
> high risk of being detected or captured by who ever wishes to spoil your
> day.
> Also do remember that the authorities are becoming very expert at quickly
> closing off all roads to and from the larger towns and cities.
>
> Where does this ever increasing level of surveillance leave the
survivalist,
> At the moment you can travel safely to and from your retreat or bug out
> location without duress, but how long will it be before the authorities
can
> simply enter your personal or vehicle details into their database and get
a
> record of your movements for the last month ( don't say it wont happen,
> govts introduce laws like this all the time under the fighting terrorism
> guise), Imagine the joy on their faces when the database shows your
vehicle
> repeatedly stopping in some remote location for up to six hours before
> returning home, BINGO they know at least the vicinity of your retreat, you
> may vary your route but your destination is always your retreat, Then
along
> comes the state and seizes your stuff.
>
> What are your options? who knows I am certain that if the so******ts in
> Europe ( and the democrats in the US ) got their collective ways they
would
> microchip every citizen ( excluding themselves of course) but so far it
has
> not got that bad .
>
> But it does leave the question of getting to your place of safety or your
> caches without detection, I personally believe in spreading my resources
> about so that if the bad guys raid my home then at least my caches or my
> retreat kit is still secure, but even though I use my rural home as my
prime
> safe place I may need to get the hell out and move to one of my
> alternatives.
> Motor vehicles so far are still fairly secure but as each day goes by the
> monitoring systems get better and the governments get more intrusive, So I
> plan my caches and hideaways along reasonably reachable foot path or
bridle
> routes and waterways, I leave open the option of doing without mechanised
or
> motorised transport, Maybe you folks may wish to consider using bicycles,
> horses, small boats, micro lights as auxiliary methods of bugging out they
> are going to be far harder for big brother to track. It is easy to cover
25
> miles a day using bikes or horses and its easier to avoid detection or
> attract unwanted attention. You can make thinks easier for yourself by
> pre-dispersing your survival assets in secure locations outside your town
/
> city limits. Please consider options for reaching safety without resorting
> to your vehicles or public transport, esp if its your own government you
are
> trying to avoid.
>

================================================== ============



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Old 08-26-2008, 11:34 PM   #2
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Did you write this stuff? It's hard to read with all the line brakes. It'd be easier for me if you listed a the source and possibly a link.



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Old 08-27-2008, 05:34 AM   #3
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The concern of government monitoring the citizens is certainly a valid one. A great deal has been done in the last few years in order to see to our safety and protection, but the potential for abuse is very hard to accept.

The worst sort of dictatorship is a benevolent dictatorship, where those in power believe they are doing what is best for the people, whether the people want it or not.

Example: We see in New York City and Los Angeles that city government has banned restaurants from serving certain kinds of food, even though the people want it. That's just the tip of the iceberg. If health care is nationalized, it stands to reason government will be far more intrusive with regard to what we ingest, how much exercise we get, etc.

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Old 08-27-2008, 06:16 PM   #4
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Well, we must want it as we keep voting them in....

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Old 08-27-2008, 07:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
Well, we must want it as we keep voting them in....
Good point. What was I thinking?
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Old 08-28-2008, 01:17 PM   #6
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You want to see some real controversy on monitoring---see the following site on the newly forming national animal id system (NAIS)

http://www.stopanimalid.org/

The farmers are furious for the most part.

Also--see the movie Enemy of the State. All the technology in the movie is currently in use today.

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Old 08-29-2008, 12:29 AM   #7
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Default Gee, sorry thats it's hard to read?

Hello all/Responce to JPBeck

RON L here = SERESURPLUS


No, I didn't write it, I got it off Misc Survivalism Newsgroup, sure am sorry it's "Hard for you to read", I'd have settled for a SIMPLE THANK YOU, actually? Thats what I do, when someone gives away something and posts it so that all can get it? Silly of me, I know?

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Old 08-29-2008, 12:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RONSERESURPLUS View Post
Hello all/Responce to JPBeck

RON L here = SERESURPLUS


No, I didn't write it, I got it off Misc Survivalism Newsgroup, sure am sorry it's "Hard for you to read", I'd have settled for a SIMPLE THANK YOU, actually? Thats what I do, when someone gives away something and posts it so that all can get it? Silly of me, I know?
Don't get tail feathers all mussed up! Seriously, all excellent points made in your post. I have been "around the block" probably more than most here, known now as an old fart, but over all these years I've seen exactly what you're saying happen, gradually, but relentlessly. Could give numerous examples, but what's the point in that?

In 1967 I bought a Baby Browning pistol from a sporting goods store (today called "gun shop"), did not have to show or prove anything at all. Had I been of criminal intent, and used the gun thusly, that's what we had cops for, to solve crimes. Today, as often as not, the cops "create" the crime, in order to make good numbers or augment departmental budgets by confiscating private property. It sickens me, yes. The selfish answer from me is that I'll be gone soon, won't bother me no more. I pity today's youth, however, with respect to their position in society as government scrutinizes their every little thing.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RONSERESURPLUS View Post
Hello all/Responce to JPBeck

RON L here = SERESURPLUS


No, I didn't write it, I got it off Misc Survivalism Newsgroup, sure am sorry it's "Hard for you to read", I'd have settled for a SIMPLE THANK YOU, actually? Thats what I do, when someone gives away something and posts it so that all can get it? Silly of me, I know?

Sorry-- -Thank you.


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