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Are bad things coming in bunches?


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Old 07-02-2012, 10:45 PM   #51
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I don't think the problem is morals so much as culture? The founders were extremely smart individuals. They knew history, and philosophy, and pretty much everything else there was to know at that time even if they were self taught. It was culturally expected at that time for a person to study various subjects and to learn if that person was fortunate enough to have the means to do so. We no longer have that culture.

And yes every generation thinks they are in trouble in regards to the generation that is coming along, but in this case we are right to worry. I went back to college in 2001 and was in a sociology class the day after 9/11. The professor compared the attacks to Pearl Harbor. One girl raised her hand and asked, "what is Pearl Harbor?". I looked around the class expecting to hear a few snickers and noticed that almost everyone was just staring at the professor waiting for an answer. The professor noticed the same thing and asked who knew "what Pearl Harbor was". Two hands went up. There were only three people in a large college class, counting the professor, that knew what Pearl Harbor was. I was in shock.

I saw that same lack of basic knowledge in class after class, and realized that something had gone really wrong from my generation to that one. Those were good kids so morals weren't the problem, but they were still dumber than dirt. That was the result of our culture and I have no idea how to fix a broken culture?
From where I sit, a grounding in ethics and traditional morality is missing in our culture and is directly resulting in our demise. "Culture" defined acceptable behavior in a society. Morality guides people in a particular direction. Today's "morals" are nil, unless you count political correctness and that no negative words may be uttered against climate change to be "morals".

Morality drives culture. Our culture is in the septic tank. Do the math.
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:56 PM   #52
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It's sad to me that my students think Snooki and these other reality stars are so wonderful, yet have no interest or respect in people that should be revered. They do not have empathy or understand that being an American is a privilege that many do not have.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:05 PM   #53
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I don't think the problem is morals so much as culture? The founders were extremely smart individuals. They knew history, and philosophy, and pretty much everything else there was to know at that time even if they were self taught. It was culturally expected at that time for a person to study various subjects and to learn if that person was fortunate enough to have the means to do so. We no longer have that culture.

And yes every generation thinks they are in trouble in regards to the generation that is coming along, but in this case we are right to worry. I went back to college in 2001 and was in a sociology class the day after 9/11. The professor compared the attacks to Pearl Harbor. One girl raised her hand and asked, "what is Pearl Harbor?". I looked around the class expecting to hear a few snickers and noticed that almost everyone was just staring at the professor waiting for an answer. The professor noticed the same thing and asked who knew "what Pearl Harbor was". Two hands went up. There were only three people in a large college class, counting the professor, that knew what Pearl Harbor was. I was in shock.

I saw that same lack of basic knowledge in class after class, and realized that something had gone really wrong from my generation to that one. Those were good kids so morals weren't the problem, but they were still dumber than dirt. That was the result of our culture and I have no idea how to fix a broken culture?
You make a good point. It seems that as time passes that education should be better and minds should increase in knowledge but that's not been the case. As you point out, the founders were people that not only understood human behaviour but the also had history to revert back to and make decisions based on what they knew happened then that either worked or didn't.

That thing about Pearl Harbour is astounding. Not even having a passing knowledge about it is bad enough to to not be able to understand the level of destruction and death that started there should be remembered by us all. I think we can chaulk this up to the dumbing down of America.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:08 PM   #54
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It's sad to me that my students think Snooki and these other reality stars are so wonderful, yet have no interest or respect in people that should be revered. They do not have empathy or understand that being an American is a privilege that many do not have.
I wonder how many of your students are familiar with George Washington Carver? With all of the worship of actors and atheletes nobody seems to remember the truly great people of our past and how our very lives are made easier, better, safer and even longer by what people like him did.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:12 PM   #55
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From where I sit, a grounding in ethics and traditional morality is missing in our culture and is directly resulting in our demise. "Culture" defined acceptable behavior in a society. Morality guides people in a particular direction. Today's "morals" are nil, unless you count political correctness and that no negative words may be uttered against climate change to be "morals".

Morality drives culture. Our culture is in the septic tank. Do the math.
A grounding in ethics and traditional morality certainly wouldn't hurt. Who knows, it might even serve as a gateway to critical thinking?
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:25 PM   #56
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A grounding in ethics and traditional morality certainly wouldn't hurt. Who knows, it might even serve as a gateway to critical thinking?
*shrug* It doesn't always work, but for the last 5000 years or so, more or less, it has beat the odds.

Don't get me wrong - I'm NO fan of indoctrination. Critical thinking is where it's at, and a whole lot of what we regard as uptight, old-fashioned morality can be taught from a few "How would you like it if..." sessions.

The traditional means of establishing an ethical and moral base - religion - is now being crapped on and ridiculed wholesale. While religion is not necessary to establish many moral and ethical standards, to toss it out wholesale as we have done - culturally - is suicidal.

There I go contradicting myself again.

OK, here's what I see right now. Most people are stupid. They BEG to be led by the nose. Religion does that while imbuing a moral and ethical standard. What we have now lets the azzclowns roam free to degrade into the worst form of human detritus which degrades the culture which hurts us all.

So...what are we left with? The lesser of two evils? Compel behavior through sermonizing or let cretins be cretins?

Oh, wait. I don't like the "lesser of two evils game". There I go yet again contradicting myself.

There's a happy medium that can be reached where people are taught why to behave certain ways and why those are preferable to what baser instincts would lead to. Religion helps compel the masses. Loving parental guidance helps teach most everyone else.

Seems we're lacking on both fronts these days.
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Old 07-02-2012, 11:32 PM   #57
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This is turning into a great conversation!

I think there can be a lot said for the fact that two of the three major "social controls" have now been named as lacking in our culture today (religion and family/parenting)...

Can anyone name the third? :-D
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:35 AM   #58
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*shrug* It doesn't always work, but for the last 5000 years or so, more or less, it has beat the odds.

Don't get me wrong - I'm NO fan of indoctrination. Critical thinking is where it's at, and a whole lot of what we regard as uptight, old-fashioned morality can be taught from a few "How would you like it if..." sessions.

The traditional means of establishing an ethical and moral base - religion - is now being crapped on and ridiculed wholesale. While religion is not necessary to establish many moral and ethical standards, to toss it out wholesale as we have done - culturally - is suicidal.

There I go contradicting myself again.

OK, here's what I see right now. Most people are stupid. They BEG to be led by the nose. Religion does that while imbuing a moral and ethical standard. What we have now lets the azzclowns roam free to degrade into the worst form of human detritus which degrades the culture which hurts us all.

So...what are we left with? The lesser of two evils? Compel behavior through sermonizing or let cretins be cretins?

Oh, wait. I don't like the "lesser of two evils game". There I go yet again contradicting myself.

There's a happy medium that can be reached where people are taught why to behave certain ways and why those are preferable to what baser instincts would lead to. Religion helps compel the masses. Loving parental guidance helps teach most everyone else.

Seems we're lacking on both fronts these days.
I think (therefore....) critical thinking and religion actually compliment each other, and with no need for indoctrination? Critical thinking leads to religion and vice versa. It doesn't take long to realize how beneficial traditional religious teachings are to not only society as a whole but to ourselves as individuals (if we actually stop to think about it).
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:13 AM   #59
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I wonder how many of your students are familiar with George Washington Carver? With all of the worship of actors and atheletes nobody seems to remember the truly great people of our past and how our very lives are made easier, better, safer and even longer by what people like him did.
People like "him" did? You're kidding, right? They don't know who GEORGE WASHINGTON himself was today and what he did. Let's start with the basics. The fundamentals. The Founding Fathers. "First in war, first in peace, first in the hearts of his countrymen." That wasn't Carver.

Sorry, the actual Father of our Country comes a long way before we start casting about to put a great peanut farming alchemist on a pedestal -- such glorification is a symptom of our problems today, not the solution IMO.

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Old 07-03-2012, 02:39 AM   #60
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People like "him" did? You're kidding, right? They don't know who GEORGE WASHINGTON himself was today and what he did. Let's start with the basics. The fundamentals. The Founding Fathers. "First in war, first in peace, first in the hearts of his countrymen." That wasn't Carver.

Sorry, the actual Father of our Country comes a long way before we start casting about to put a great peanut farming alchemist on a pedestal -- such glorification is a symptom of our problems today, not the solution IMO.
I think you're taking me wrong. Yes George Washington was a man in a realm pretty well all to himself. He risked all he had for the future of this nation. As did all that were involved in making this a great nation.

Carver was a man that grew up much the way many of these kids in the inner cities do now, both black and white. I was mearly trying to say that he should be more of a role model to them that the latest raper or some stupid idiot celebrity. And no giving credit where credit is due is not part of the problem today. The problem is kids and even adults looking to worhtless deadbeats with respect instead of someone that actually did something.

Just read it for what it's worth and don't get all worked up thinking I'm lowering George Washington to anything less than he was. Also I am trying to make a point going back to previous post in regard to history and the lack of being educated in it.
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