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Old 07-06-2013, 12:31 PM   #51
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Some good suggestions. Thanks all.

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Old 07-06-2013, 04:10 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Doc3402

Go with an EMP proof pre-1975 diesel pickup. If you go 4x4 get big enough tires so you won't have to worry about bottlenecks on that bridge. Maybe a mil-surp Dodge Power Wagon.
Wow, pre-1975! I can't believe we have to go that far back to get away from all the computerized garbage in the engine! And diesel survives better than any other fuel engine and can be converted to burning flex fuels for versatility. Not everyone wants to go around smelling like McDonald's French fries, but when gas is scarce, you'll be on the road longer than anyone else! :-P
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:58 PM   #53
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Wow, pre-1975! I can't believe we have to go that far back to get away from all the computerized garbage in the engine! And diesel survives better than any other fuel engine and can be converted to burning flex fuels for versatility. Not everyone wants to go around smelling like McDonald's French fries, but when gas is scarce, you'll be on the road longer than anyone else! :-P
I said '75 because that's when GM first started chipping some of their vehicles. You may get away with a newer one, but I don't know, especially in mil-surp if you go that way.

One other benefit of diesel is their adaptability to bio-fuels. Now for the down side. Unlike the '70's when people bought diesels to save at the pumps, road diesel is usually more expensive these days.
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:45 PM   #54
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I said '75 because that's when GM first started chipping some of their vehicles. You may get away with a newer one, but I don't know, especially in mil-surp if you go that way.

One other benefit of diesel is their adaptability to bio-fuels. Now for the down side. Unlike the '70's when people bought diesels to save at the pumps, road diesel is usually more expensive these days.
GM???!! Gool Lord man! Any GM diesel before the Duramax (2001) is junk. Probably won't even find a GM diesel survivor from pre-1975!

Power wagon? Hell yeah! Put an early Cummins in it and you are good to go- once have the fuel cut solenoid bypassed and you get it started that is. (bump starting a diesel is no treat, and takes a hell of a long time when its cold when the glow plugs would normally be needed- remember? No electrical.)

Dodge me or I'll Ram you!

I'm thinking a deuce and a half, but there is still the problem of getting it started.

Oh, and the trunk of a car will only act as a true Faraday cage if it is properly grounded. That would be a hassle doing every time you parked.
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Old 07-06-2013, 05:54 PM   #55
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How about a goped and a can of gas?

http://www.goped.com/products/Gas.asp

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Old 07-06-2013, 05:57 PM   #56
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GM???!! Gool Lord man! Any GM diesel before the Duramax (2001) is junk. Probably won't even find a GM diesel survivor from pre-1975!

Power wagon? Hell yeah! Put an early Cummins in it and you are good to go- once have the fuel cut solenoid bypassed and you get it started that is. (bump starting a diesel is no treat, and takes a hell of a long time when its cold when the glow plugs would normally be needed- remember? No electrical.)

Dodge me or I'll Ram you!

I'm thinking a deuce and a half, but there is still the problem of getting it started.

Oh, and the trunk of a car will only act as a true Faraday cage if it is properly grounded. That would be a hassle doing every time you parked.
Sorry. I could have made that clearer. I wasn't suggesting a GM diesel. I was just saying that that was the earliest I could remember the chips first appearing in motor vehicles, and I think GM was the first of the Big Three to do it. I assume that all the other manufacturers got on the bandwagon within a year or three.

No computer controlled electrical. EMP shouldn't kill electricity, or electrical storage in a typical wet or dry cell battery, but as chip dependent as we are these days it may as well. Even a decent tactical type flashlight will become inoperable, but that $1.99 EverReady you have in the junk drawer should still work. Tube type radios and amplifiers should still work, especially if they are unplugged at the time.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:52 AM   #57
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Sorry. I could have made that clearer. I wasn't suggesting a GM diesel. I was just saying that that was the earliest I could remember the chips first appearing in motor vehicles, and I think GM was the first of the Big Three to do it. I assume that all the other manufacturers got on the bandwagon within a year or three.

No computer controlled electrical. EMP shouldn't kill electricity, or electrical storage in a typical wet or dry cell battery, but as chip dependent as we are these days it may as well. Even a decent tactical type flashlight will become inoperable, but that $1.99 EverReady you have in the junk drawer should still work. Tube type radios and amplifiers should still work, especially if they are unplugged at the time.
EMP doesn't just kill microchips.

When EMP was "discovered", the contemporary electronics of the time were damaged. That would have been variable state electronics, better known as tube technology.

The problem with EMP (solar CME or ionization from the resultant gamma rays from a nuclear UCR) is that the voltage is so high. In modern electronics, specifically integrated circuits, the gates between the micro components can become "fused" or melted from the heating that occurs.

Basically, an impulse of the magnitude associated with an air burst device or solar event could BBQ things like an alternator or electronic ignition. If you drive something like an all-mechanical diesel, the vehicle will be operable.

The question I have is this:

Even if you have an operable vehicle that survives the event, where are you going to drive it to given that all of the other vehicles will likely be dead and littering the streets, how are you going to refuel it, and what do you think the people who didn't prep are going to do when they see you driving around in your car while they are all walking? Gonna run them all over? Gonna shoot everybody?

Even if none of that was a problem, how much fuel can your vehicle carry? If you're carrying a bunch of extra fuel because you can't get it after the event, how much food, water, clothing, guns, and ammunition can your vehicle carry.

I guess it's not a big problem if you don't have to drive very far, but most gas stations use pumps with modern electronics in them.

My point is this:

While some people and some mechanical and even electrical devices will survive an EMP event, basic things like electricity, clean drinking water, sanitation services, and other things that are more important than EMP hardened bug out vehicles will be real problems. Leaving your home and everything you have to trek off into the woods after all hell breaks loose doesn't seem like much of a survival tactic to me, it seems more like a lonely place to die.

Just because you know how to hunt, fish, and fight off zombies doesn't mean you know what to do after you break your leg. Even if you do know what to do, how many people have an operating room in their bunker? If you get an infection after you run off into the woods, do you have the means to kill the infection? Infection, disease, and accidents killed a lot more of our ancestors than other people did. Things like tooth decay and basic hygiene and sanitation were the reasons most people in the middle ages didn't make it to 30.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that leaving society and retreating to your protective cocoon isn't going to improve your long term survival. You need your neighbors, you need your community, and you need America. Running away when something bad happens is a temporary fix at best. Eventually you're going to have to start fixing the problems.
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Old 07-07-2013, 05:49 PM   #58
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Word of warning. They shoot horse thieves. Horses will be an important form of transportation and labor. If the power loss was permanent, any form of organized community will protect those horses with a death penalty. Bicycles will become a major source of transportation. They will probably shoot bicycle thieves too.
Keep a good pair of walking/hiking shoes along with socks in your trunk. You wont get too far if you are white collar and in dress shoes.
I am retired so if it happened while I was home it would not require walking. I could make it home in a couple hours from the furthest part of town. We kayak so no motor to worry about if I am on the lake which is about 1 mile from my house. Biggest problem would be if we were out in the motorhome. No way I would be able to walk 600 miles. I dont take any prescription meds and my wife takes one that she could live without but I keep at least a years supply on hand. Also a years supply of supplements.

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Old 07-07-2013, 07:15 PM   #59
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What is your plan to get home? If you can’t get home where are you going to stay ? What is your plan and what are you going to do ?

Due to the time I get off work, I would wait it out until daylight. I would try to get some sleep at work until then if possible. A couple of coworkers would also be heading in my direction; we would be wise to all head out together. I keep a backpack in my car with emergency supplies, water, food, extra clothes, etc. that I would take with me, as well as a sidearm. Before leaving I would change into more comfortable and less noticeable clothes and shoes and help my coworkers scavenge for useful items at work (water, food, etc.) to bring along. We should stay as a group until we have to split up to go our separate ways. I would be the only one armed but feel that there is safety in numbers and that as a woman, people would be more likely to leave me alone if I am traveling with a couple of men. Walking would take at least 4-6 hours for me. I am probably the fittest of the group and there are steep hills, so this may be too optimistic. Depending on which route I take, there are several friends' homes along the way I could stop at if necessary.

What are your plans now that you have made it home ?

Hopefully family members and neighbors have already started to take some action before I get home. Since the water is still running, I would want to store as much as possible. Wash clothes by hand while water is still running. Also, procure any available supplies from stores within walking distance to add to what we have. Confer and plan with neighbors.

What is your long term plan from here on out ?

The neighbors have a well they have already offered to share. Many of us have gardens and firearms. People may have to resort to eating things like insects for protein when small game runs out- they are plentiful. A lot of people around here are going to be in trouble without their medications. I am fortunate not to need any myself. The biggest challenges long term would be food storage for winter and neighborhood defense. Also, lack of antibiotics if someone gets sick or injured.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:01 PM   #60
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There are many things that concern me. EMP is definitely NOT one of them.

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