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Old 06-12-2012, 09:30 PM   #31
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Down here you have to have water. If the electric grid goes down I have to go to the water. And I hope Trez can stop the horde coming across our border before they get this far north!
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:59 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by anthonymartinez138 View Post
Does everyone think there will be social unrest if Obama is re-elected?
Do you mean more social unrest? Just look at what happened when he was first elected. The Tea Party and the occupy movement have come into existence.

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Originally Posted by bkt View Post
The possibility of widespread social unrest (read: riots) is way above 0 whether Obama is re-elected or not.

Will there be social unrest just because he is re-elected? No. But there very probably will be riots in time after severe economic crises hit the world. When you depend on the dollar and the dollar isn't worth much, people are gonna get grumpy when their kids get hungry. Obama and Bush before him and countless others over the last many decades have worked, deliberately or not, toward a situation where the dollar is on extremely shaky ground.
Yeah, like that.

In any case what are the oddsmakers saying in Vegas? I won't be placing any bets but it would be interesting to know.
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingdad

Do you mean more social unrest? Just look at what happened when he was first elected. The Tea Party and the occupy movement have come into existence.

Yeah, like that.

In any case what are the oddsmakers saying in Vegas? I won't be placing any bets but it would be interesting to know.
U have a point on the "more" social unrest
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Old 06-17-2012, 03:15 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by anthonymartinez138 View Post
U have a point on the "more" social unrest
Not really -- it's completely absurd to compare the blame-America-first America-hating Occupy socialists/anarchists with the patriotic Tea Party movement. They may be polar opposites in most, not all, perspective but certainly are in their demeanor.

That said, if push came to shove, my money'd be on the patriots. I suspect that they'd suffer many indignancies, however, if trod on, and as their flags warn not to do, they're gonna go Old Testament!
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:09 AM   #35
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Not really -- it's completely absurd to compare the blame-America-first America-hating Occupy socialists/anarchists with the patriotic Tea Party movement. They may be polar opposites in most, not all, perspective but certainly are in their demeanor.

That said, if push came to shove, my money'd be on the patriots. I suspect that they'd suffer many indignancies, however, if trod on, and as their flags warn not to do, they're gonna go Old Testament!
Both movements are by definition social unrest, regardless of whether you agree with the movement or not.
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Old 06-17-2012, 08:29 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Vikingdad View Post
Both movements are by definition social unrest, regardless of whether you agree with the movement or not.
Really? You would categorize the Tea Party movement as "civil unrest"? And to the point of thinking it is comparable to OWS!?

Tell ya what, when Tea Party folk squat in public parks and on police cars for s***s and giggles, have "rape tents" at their rallies, and are arrested for planning to bomb a bridge and firebomb offices government officials are going to be in I'll concede your definition fits both and we should be worried about both to ANY extent.

In the meantime, may I suggest you need to find a less-broad-brush as well as definition for this particular shtf fantasy.

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Old 06-17-2012, 08:58 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
Really? You would categorize the Tea Party movement as "civil unrest"? And to the point of thinking it is comparable to OWS!?

Tell ya what, when Tea Party folk squat in public parks and on police cars for s***s and giggles, have "rape tents" at their rallies, and are arrested for planning to bomb a bridge and firebomb offices government officials are going to be in I'll concede your definition fits both and we should be worried about both to ANY extent.

In the meantime, may I suggest you need to find a less-broad-brush as well as definition for this particular shtf fantasy.
Simmer down, Cochise.

I am not in any way, shape or form comparing the two movements to each other. People are dissatisfied with how things are and where they are headed, the Tea Party and Occupy movements both came into being after Obama was elected in 2008. The Tea Party is taking the high road and doing things in a legal, civil manner, but they are still dissatisfied. The definition of civil unrest is broad indeed and does include peaceful, legal protests (Tea Party) as well as those that include and even promote criminal activity such as Occupy.

My only point is that civil unrest is happening. It will continue to escalate if either Obama or Romney wins in November.

Don't get all butt-hurt over my statements. I will put my money and my efforts on the Tea Party Patriots as well, but for the purposes of this "SHTF Fantasy" (as you put it) I am betting that things will get much, much worse than they are now. More movements (read: "social unrest"), more violence and more pressure from the government on true Patriots.
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Old 06-18-2012, 03:06 AM   #38
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Sorry, man, words mean something. And we write on this forum. Your connoting the Tea Party movement, borne of civil disatisfaction to be sure, as "unrest" is simpy not appropriate. It has, in fact, been exceedingly civil. Is any public assembly and speech "unrest" in your copy of the Bill of Rights?

I think there is huge difference in that the police HAVE to be involved to contain if not end "unrests" i.e. Occupy Wall St. which PREACHES anarchy.

I reject your relativism in general and specifically here. I am merely pointing out that only one of your two examples should be the concern of such a forum as well as of the authorities, and it isn't the widespread grassroots one of America-loving patriotic families flying our flag to address their grievances under our founding documents.

Here's a textbook definition; does it say "Tea Party" or "Occupy Wall Street" to our readers and which would, should, we be concerned about?

Civil disorder, also known as civil unrest or civil strife, is a broad term that is typically used by law enforcement to describe one or more forms of disturbance caused by a group of people. Civil disturbance is typically a symptom of, and a form of protest against, major socio-political problems; the severity of the action coincides with public expression(s) of displeasure. Examples of civil disorder include, but are not necessarily limited to: illegal parades; sit-ins and other forms of obstructions; riots; sabotage; and other forms of crime. It is intended to be a demonstration to the public and the government, but can escalate into general chaos.

Last edited by HockaLouis; 06-18-2012 at 03:15 AM.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:08 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymartinez138 View Post
Does everyone think there will be social unrest if Obama is re-elected?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingdad View Post
Do you mean more social unrest? Just look at what happened when he was first elected. The Tea Party and the occupy movement have come into existence.



Yeah, like that.

In any case what are the oddsmakers saying in Vegas? I won't be placing any bets but it would be interesting to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymartinez138 View Post
U have a point on the "more" social unrest
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
Not really -- it's completely absurd to compare the blame-America-first America-hating Occupy socialists/anarchists with the patriotic Tea Party movement. They may be polar opposites in most, not all, perspective but certainly are in their demeanor.

That said, if push came to shove, my money'd be on the patriots. I suspect that they'd suffer many indignancies, however, if trod on, and as their flags warn not to do, they're gonna go Old Testament!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
Really? You would categorize the Tea Party movement as "civil unrest"? And to the point of thinking it is comparable to OWS!?

Tell ya what, when Tea Party folk squat in public parks and on police cars for s***s and giggles, have "rape tents" at their rallies, and are arrested for planning to bomb a bridge and firebomb offices government officials are going to be in I'll concede your definition fits both and we should be worried about both to ANY extent.

In the meantime, may I suggest you need to find a less-broad-brush as well as definition for this particular shtf fantasy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikingdad View Post
Simmer down, Cochise.

I am not in any way, shape or form comparing the two movements to each other. People are dissatisfied with how things are and where they are headed, the Tea Party and Occupy movements both came into being after Obama was elected in 2008. The Tea Party is taking the high road and doing things in a legal, civil manner, but they are still dissatisfied. The definition of civil unrest is broad indeed and does include peaceful, legal protests (Tea Party) as well as those that include and even promote criminal activity such as Occupy.

My only point is that civil unrest is happening. It will continue to escalate if either Obama or Romney wins in November.

Don't get all butt-hurt over my statements. I will put my money and my efforts on the Tea Party Patriots as well, but for the purposes of this "SHTF Fantasy" (as you put it) I am betting that things will get much, much worse than they are now. More movements (read: "social unrest"), more violence and more pressure from the government on true Patriots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockaLouis View Post
Sorry, man, words mean something. And we write on this forum. Your connoting the Tea Party movement, borne of civil disatisfaction to be sure, as "unrest" is simpy not appropriate. It has, in fact, been exceedingly civil. Is any public assembly and speech "unrest" in your copy of the Bill of Rights?

I think there is huge difference in that the police HAVE to be involved to contain if not end "unrests" i.e. Occupy Wall St. which PREACHES anarchy.

I reject your relativism in general and specifically here. I am merely pointing out that only one of your two examples should be the concern of such a forum as well as of the authorities, and it isn't the widespread grassroots one of America-loving patriotic families flying our flag to address their grievances under our founding documents.

Here's a textbook definition; does it say "Tea Party" or "Occupy Wall Street" to our readers and which would, should, we be concerned about?

Civil disorder, also known as civil unrest or civil strife, is a broad term that is typically used by law enforcement to describe one or more forms of disturbance caused by a group of people. Civil disturbance is typically a symptom of, and a form of protest against, major socio-political problems; the severity of the action coincides with public expression(s) of displeasure. Examples of civil disorder include, but are not necessarily limited to: illegal parades; sit-ins and other forms of obstructions; riots; sabotage; and other forms of crime. It is intended to be a demonstration to the public and the government, but can escalate into general chaos.
You are taking my words out of context. I never did nor did I intend to make a comparison between Occupy and the Tea Party. I was providing examples of "social unrest" (not civil unrest, not civil disorder. There is a difference.)

You are leaping wildly to conclusions about what I mean. I think I have made my thoughts perfectly clear. Unfortunately you are apparently blind to that fact.

I'm done.
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Old 06-18-2012, 11:02 AM   #40
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NP, but the rest of us are keeping an eye on you and the OWS people.
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