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Old 07-22-2011, 05:33 AM   #11
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both of these posts are sound advice imho. A carried firearm is only to be used if it is a direct personal lethal threat specifically directed to you or your family. Other than that, vacate to safety, take cover, and be a good witness.
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:12 AM   #12
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So you would let a shooter just kill innocent people men, woman, and children, when you might have the means to stop it?



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Old 07-22-2011, 12:49 PM   #13
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Sorry I am not here to protect other people. I am here to protect MY FAMILY. That is exactly what I am going to do.

You are talking about a large gathering like when the senator was shot in AZ. As soon as he starts shooting people are going to be running and screaming mass caos is going to ensue. Sorry unless you are one of these interwebz former SPec Ops super ultra accurate pistol snipers more than likely all your going to do is kill more people and if you don't get killed by the police you are going to go to prison for killing people while trying to be some idiot HERO. He is not going to be standing still and people are going to be running into you and hitting you. The whole time your stalking the shooter and killing other people with your missed shots someone else is trampling your wife and kids.

I am not paid to protect the public so it is not my job.

You and I the CCW guys and gals are not trained in this kind of situation. Leave it to the people who do train to take care of this.

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Old 07-22-2011, 01:29 PM   #14
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So you would let a shooter just kill innocent people men, woman, and children, when you might have the means to stop it?
Only if you are this close to the shooter.



Picture is only a graphical representation to support above posted opinion, that is all.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:29 PM   #15
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So you would let a shooter just kill innocent people men, woman, and children, when you might have the means to stop it?
Apparently, that is exactly what the majority would do.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:45 PM   #16
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Like I said before I am not here to protect other people. I am here to protect my family. So it is not my responsibility to protect someone else in a situation like that. My duty is to get my wife and kids to safety. If you want to tag along that is fine.

If others die that is not my problem. Sorry, if you think I am bad person.

Here is a situation for you.

You have an active shooting in a crowded outdoor area and he starts shooting. You being a SUPER CCW takes off towards the shooter. In the process your wife gets shot and now your daughter is all alone then someone sees that she is all alone and grabs her and disappears into the crowd.

So because you want to be a hero you didn't get your family to safety so your wife got shot and someone has kidnapped your daughter. YEAH FOR YOU.

If your #1 priority is not getting your family to safety YOU ARE WRONG. Plus how can getting your family to safety not be your #1 priority.

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Old 07-22-2011, 06:48 PM   #17
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Sorry I am not here to protect other people. I am here to protect MY FAMILY. That is exactly what I am going to do.

You are talking about a large gathering like when the senator was shot in AZ. As soon as he starts shooting people are going to be running and screaming mass caos is going to ensue. Sorry unless you are one of these interwebz former SPec Ops super ultra accurate pistol snipers more than likely all your going to do is kill more people and if you don't get killed by the police you are going to go to prison for killing people while trying to be some idiot HERO. He is not going to be standing still and people are going to be running into you and hitting you. The whole time your stalking the shooter and killing other people with your missed shots someone else is trampling your wife and kids.

I am not paid to protect the public so it is not my job.

You and I the CCW guys and gals are not trained in this kind of situation. Leave it to the people who do train to take care of this.
THIS. I don't see a scenario where I can protect my family AND engage the bad guy at the same time. I'm getting my family out of there, to cover, ASAP. No doubt I"ll be drawn and ready if he comes our way though.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:51 PM   #18
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Both of these posts are sound advice IMHO. A carried firearm is only to be used if it is a direct personal lethal threat specifically directed to you or your family. Other than that, vacate to safety, take cover, and be a good witness.
Excellent advice/plan!
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Old 07-22-2011, 08:23 PM   #19
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That may be true, but after Colombine LE is not going to sit around waiting for the shooter to off himself or run out of ammo. If we go in and he has offed himself, fine. If we go in and he offs himself because we are after him, fine. Maybe we we reduced the body count and cleared the scene sufficiently to get medical assistance to the wounded, hopefully saving lives. The dynamics have changed and we are trying to change with them. When the dynamics change again (and they will), we will try to change again.

Your plan is not a bad one. Just remember to have a back up plan as no plan ever survives first contact with the enemy (Murphy's laws of combat)
i didnt mean that LE would sit around and wait. i meant the response time is measured in minutes the goblin will be pretty much done with his/her initial plan by the time that the law shows up. once law enforcement arrives or is already present i would personally leave it up to them. but i am damn sure not gonna wait for the folks in blue to get there.

im former law enforcement, my philosophy of protecting my loved ones is to engage the enemy as quickly violently and accurately as i am able in order to ensure the threat to life is stopped.

i was trained in the army that if your ambushed the best tactic pass fail is to charge the enemy. i dont see how that philosophy changes when dealing with a goblin ambush. the typical spree shooter is not expecting people to fight back, thats why the liberal hero laughner did relatively little damage given the amount of ammunition and firepower he had. if citizens had not of attacked him far far far more people would have been killed or wounded had he been allowed free reign to expend his ammunition.

if i could carry a m16 around on my shoulder everyday, everywhere i go i would.
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:13 PM   #20
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There is a big difference between what personal actions are deployed by a CCW individual in a open public place like a park or outdoor gathering, where retreat is possible and more likely, than being held at gunpoint or hostage/shooting/robbery in an indoor enclosed facility, like a restaurant, store or bank. Two different scenarios, different choices, different tactics.

And I was Army trained as well.



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