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7.62 vs. .223


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Old 01-02-2009, 07:01 PM   #31
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In a SHTF situation which would you prefer?

.223 - Less stopping power, more accuracy.
7.62x39 - More stopping power, less accuracy.
7.62x51, more stopping power than either, more accuracy at greater distance than either.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:06 PM   #32
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The only problem is the 7.62 x 39mm cartridge has the flight characteristics of a Studebaker at decent ranges.
SGT, Here I go again. I hate to argue with you but in the next true conflagration, most of the action will be CQB in the urban arena. I know you live in "BIG SKY" but our average focal range in this upcoming conflict will be well under 50 meters. I'll take the +1 stopping power of my AK any day. If I need to reach out and touch someone I'll use my M98 Mauser 8mm deer slayer.
Maybe I should fight my way to your place and hunker down!
Oh by the way, some of the early Studebakers were pretty aerodynamic for their time. Maybe you were thinking of Nash.
My AK 7.62 will put 28 of 30 in the center mass ring at 100yds with the iron post sights, then throw it in my trunk for two weeks, load her up with Ruski steel case (read; cheap) ammo and go shootin' again. Do that with your AR or a non-suppression weapon. I'm comfortable with that, AND, I can find ammo anywhere and off most any ‘Bravo Gulf’ body lying on the battlefield. Why carry a ton of ammo when the bad guys will do it for you? Think about it!
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Old 01-03-2009, 01:17 AM   #33
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Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

The 7.62mm is good for stopping power. So is the 5.56mm. Contrary to popular belief, that round is doing a heck of a job in the urban jungles of Iraq.

The AK-47 is reliable, and will fire with half of the sand of Afganistan dumped into the reciever, but you can keep it. Iron sights are slower to use due their construction. The AK's bolt and barrel will actually flex in two different directions during recoil which reduces accuracy (I've seen the slow mo video to prove it - I believe it's still on youtube). The AK is designed as a small machine gun first and rifle second. At really close ranges, the AK can be very deadly on full-auto. At far ranges the AK will suffer every time regardless of the particular model you are using.

The 5.56mm AR rifle is designed to be a rifle first and foremost. The rifle will engage targets all the way out to 600m with iron sights (something the AK cannot do). The AR rifle is further enhanced by the nice optics that are available today. An AR with a standard M68 CQC optic or a 4x ACOG optic will beat an iron-sighted AK to the draw every single time due to the fact you do not have to align the sights - put the dot on the target and squeeze the trigger. It's been proven over and over again in Iraq and Afganistan.

The AR will run effectively as long as you clean it well. During one of my last field exercises, my M4 ran through over 2500 rounds of blank (very dirty ammo) ammunition. All I did was give it an extra squirt of CLP from my little field bottle right on the bolt to ensure the rifle ran good. The conditions were so dirty/muddy that my M4 was brown and tan from all the mud. It took awhile to clean her up after that 18 hours out on the field (The M68 optic ran flawless btw).

This youtube video has the same conclusions:

The only thing the AK has going for it is the sheer power of the 7.62mm round at close range on cover.

Plus after shooting alot of the mil-spec M855 ball ammo (aka built by the lowest bidder ammo) through my M4 I realized that a good running AR will digest any halfway decent ammo.

Best combo for me: A full size AR with an ACOG scope, folding bipod, and plenty of 72 grain match 5.56mm ammo.
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:22 AM   #34
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Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

The 7.62mm is good for stopping power. So is the 5.56mm. Contrary to popular belief, that round is doing a heck of a job in the urban jungles of Iraq.

The only thing the AK has going for it is the sheer power of the 7.62mm round at close range on cover.
Best combo for me: A full size AR with an ACOG scope, folding bipod, and plenty of 72 grain match 5.56mm ammo.
No disagreement this time SGT, everything you say is 100% correct. No argument from me on the facts you present.
The utube was very informative; I hadn’t seen that comparison before. Thanks for providing the opportunity.
BUT, I still love my AK and to use an old argument of yours, I'll bet I could get three AKs for what you paid for your AR, AND I can shoot all day with 19 cent/rnds.
Hey, look at it this way, you won't need to worry about me buying up AR parts and ammo and vise-versa.
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Old 01-03-2009, 07:00 AM   #35
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i would choose the .223 since it would be easier to find than 7.62, plus if you find a dead leo you can ussually take his ar if hes been lucky enough to get one
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Old 01-03-2009, 08:22 AM   #36
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The 7.62x39 is a good round,I just have never cared for it and over the years sold or traded off all guns in that caliber. Now 223 I like alot,cheap to shoot and reload,have a good seletion of weights & styles of bullets and I have 6-7 different guns in that caliber so I have a gun for any senario to choose from.
If the SHTF,we are all going to have to decide in a hurry what we are going to actually do,and I really don't think choosing which particular gun will be a big choice at that time.You will grab whatever you can and do what has to be done to the best of your ability and mental state at that time.
Everyone on the gun forums just talks about stocking up on guns&ammo,but you should stocked up on as much non-perishable food and water even more. I haven't ever met anyone that can stay alive on wood,plastic,metal,lead,and gunpowder.
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:19 PM   #37
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Try this and see where you stand.
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Old 01-03-2009, 09:34 PM   #38
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cpttango, I tried the eye dominant test and still found I prefer .223/5.56mm.

any suggestions?


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Old 01-03-2009, 11:01 PM   #39
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if you watch
, and still think the battle field AK is the way to go, just listen to the part at the end where the guy says "That's the second person I've seen that happen too".

No Thank You Mikhail - All due respect to your design, I will stick with what I know is going to keep me alive....

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Old 01-03-2009, 11:09 PM   #40
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My apologies dillinger, because I really like AR rifle (I trust my life to one on the job), but we gotta be fair.

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