Originally Posted by John_Deer
Do you consider Hornady Ballistic tip ammo as crappy? FMJ/TMJ ammo will penetrate car parts. Do you plan to hunt with FMJ/TMJ ammo? I am not the only one that has seen quality bullets fragment when striking brush. Varmint hunters have all seen quality bullets disintegrate when striking a blade of grass.
Ballistic tip ammo will almost always fragment on contact with brush. This is common knowledge. It's why you don't fire into brush if you're using ballistic tip ammo. Even in a larger caliber, firing a ballistic tip through brush can cause it to expand or fragment prematurely and result in a shallow and smaller diameter wound cavity if the back side of the slug still strikes the target area. You want unethical? I'd call firing almost any ballistic tip ammo through brush unethical. They are usually designed to fragment on impact. When they IMPACT a twig they fragment. (DUH)
Varmint hunters use varmint rounds which are jacketed so light they have been known to come apart in barrels with 1:7 twists, or they use specially designed ballistic tip ammo. Varmint rounds are usually designed to fragment or rapidly expand on impact. When they IMPACT a twig they fragment or rapidly expand. (DUH) Which means its a bad idea to fire a VARMINT round through brush as well.
All the following rounds have been extensively tested for barrier penetration:
62gr Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw (TBBC) bonded JSP (XM556FBIT3)
64gr Winchester solid base bonded JSP (Q3313/RA556B)
50gr TSX loaded by Black Hills
Speer 55 & 64gr Gold Dot JSP (5.56)
Federal 62gr Mk318 Mod0 (T556TNB1)
62gr Federal bonded JSP Tactical (LE223T3)
55gr Federal bonded JSP load (Tactical––LE223T1 or identical Premium Rifle––P223T2)
Swift 75gr Scirocco
60gr Nosler Partition JSP
Remington 62gr bonded JSP
Federal 55gr TSX (T223S)
Speer 55 & 64gr Gold Dot JSP (.223)
Federal 62gr Fusion JSP
Results can be viewed here
. We do not use FMJ at all unless its for plinking or practicing. We use federal bonded tactical for people and animals. We also use Barnes TSX but only for animals, Barnes' copper petals tend to sheer off in glass and metal so they're not ideal for people.
I have seen people take down whitetails with M193 and M855 which are both FMJBT. On both occasions the rounds were overkill and most of the far side shoulder had to be discarded. Would I hunt with that? Yeah if I didn't have anything else handy. But id prefer something that didnt tear the deer up so bad and leave little fragments in the meat. The flip side to milspec FMJBT is based on speed and yaw they sometimes do not fragment or tumble quick enough for whitetail resulting in a through and through .22FMJ diameter hole. But at closer ranges id be comfortable with it if I didn't have a better option.
In a lot of states the .223 isn't considered as adequate for deer hunting. I have seen deer run for close to a mile after several hits in the breadbasket with a 223.
There are shot gun only states, states that do not allow buckshot, states that only allow you to carry one weapon at a time, states that regulate so steeply they make it nearly impossible to hunt, and states that will let you carry just about anything. State law is not an indicator of what works or does not work. It's an indicator that some fat politician didnt have anything better to do.
And the breadbasket is not a vital area.
I belong to a club that drives deer with dogs. We have 35 dog owning members. Every year we have guests that show up with an AR 15. They shoot deer and hit them but the deer keeps running for another hunter to put the deer down with an adequate rifle or a shotgun slug. They cry that was my deer but the rule is if the deer is standing the last person to shoot it claims the deer.
Maybe they need to get better ammo or learn how to shoot if this happens as often as you claim it does. I've seen guys drop a deer in their tracks with a .223.
The OP isn't asking your opinion on a good 30-06 round. He's asking for opinions on a good .223 round.