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Old 05-14-2011, 03:17 AM   #31
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Show me an Eastern US (Timber) Wolf that looks like an Idaho Wolf-
Go back to school and learn to read- quit spreading your trash without facts to back it up !!!
http://oi43.tinypic.com/153pd1k.jpg
Apparently you didn't take the time to read the facts that I posted. I have plenty of schoolin' Flat Tire. I have a Master's of Science in wildlife ecology rather than "many" interests as you indicate about yourself on your profile page. One can be a Jack-of-all-trades, but few are Masters of any.

I never said anything about SUBSPECIES as you countered with. I said the SAME SPECIES, A legal definition when talking about legislation and the endangered species act.

But, here is your chance to voice your views on the matter..."As part of the proposed rule, the Fish and Wildlife Service would revise the range of the gray wolf (the species Canis lupus) by removing all or parts of 29 eastern states due to newer taxonomic information indicating that the gray wolf did not historically occur in those states. The Service is also initiating status reviews of gray wolves in the Pacific Northwest and Southwest to determine the appropriate entity and listing status of that entity in those areas, as well as seeking information on a newly-recognized species, the eastern wolf (Canis lycaon), throughout its range in the United States and Canada. The Service is seeking public comment as part of this process."

Also, I enjoyed that photo-shopped image that has been floating around the internet for many years, it is comical indeed.

Did I mention that I whole-heartedly support the second amendment and I love guns and hunters, even though I am a woman, a biologist, and am employed by our government working for the American people?

“I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of the whole human being.” — Abraham Lincoln

"If all the beasts were gone,
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All things are connected.
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Originally Posted by 500mag_guy View Post
A word of caution to the wise: posting of illegal activity on a public forum is never a good idea...The federal penalty for killing an animal protected under the Endangered Species Act is a maximum $100,000 fine and a year in prison.

Food for thought.
Thank you for the numbers sir, they have been taken off the protected species list. so come get me. but before they could ever do anything to me they would have to first of all prove that i was not just pulling all of this out of my ass, and that i ever DID kill any wolves. seems like quite a long shot to me. but thank you sir for looking out for me.

500[/QUOTE]

You are quite welcome 500. But for the record, I AM A FEMALE DAMMIT!!! I am not an LE, but you have openly posted the fact that you would and have killed any wolves you come across. I was just trying to make a point, just as if one was modifying a shotgun barrel is illegal.

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Biologist in the employ of the federal government=bureaucrat.
If you want to call me a bureaucrat, then I guess that's okay, I am proud to say that I am an employee of our great Nation. But I prefer the term PUBLIC SERVANT.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:24 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by VICTIMNOMORE View Post
Timber wolf: other common name: "Gray Wolf". Family: "Canidae". Species classification: "Canus lupis". Related to the jackal, coyote, and domestic dog.

Timber wolf = Gray wolf = same species = no difference.

With all due respect, you really should know your animals. Especially if you plan on hunting them.
I posted this but someone deleted the whole post-read below.


Here you go fool- they are all gray wolves but subspecies vary from region to region. The Canadian Wolves they reintroduced in Idaho are these. Please note the size can be 150 lbs.

British Columbian Wolf - Canis lupus columbianus

And the east coast Timber Wolf is 100 lbs max with an average male at 75 lbs.

Eastern Timber Wolf - Canis lupus lycaon

Do you need more info ??? And maybe you should stop posting if you don't know anything-
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:30 AM   #33
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Quote:
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I never said anything about SUBSPECIES as you countered with. I said the SAME SPECIES, A legal definition when talking about legislation and the endangered species act.



Here is what you wrote

Quote:
Originally Posted by VICTIMNOMORE View Post

Timber wolf = Gray wolf = same species = no difference.


There is a difference, and you don't know what you are talking about. I said they reintroduced the Canadian Wolf to Idaho which is a different wolf than the Timber Wolf on the East of the US- Like twice as big. But they are both Gray Wolves. Look it up !

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Old 05-14-2011, 03:50 AM   #34
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Flat Tire, I deleted your post. You are treading very close to the edge of my tolerance.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:52 AM   #35
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Here is what you wrote


There is a difference, and you don't know what you are talking about. I said they reintroduced the Canadian Wolf to Idaho which is a different wolf than the Timber Wolf on the East of the US- Like twice as big. But they are both Gray Wolves. Look it up !
Yes, I understand your point, and I do not disagree that they are different subspecies. They are NOT recognized as two distinct species...YET. The world authority, the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN) does not recognize the the "Timber Wolf" as a separate species. Being a subspecies doesn't mean they are different species. Ergo, they are still the same species. LOOK IT UP...Search Results Canis lycaon produces no results.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:54 AM   #36
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Default What would Aldo do?

Killing the Wolf

[....] We were eating lunch on a high rimrock, at the foot of which a turbulent river elbowed its way. We saw what we thought was a doe fording the torrent, her breast awash in white water. When she climbed the bank toward us and shook out her tail, we realized our error: it was a wolf. A half-dozen others, evidently grown pups, sprang from the willows and all joined in a welcoming melee of wagging tails and playful maulings. What was literally a pile of wolves writhed and tumbled in the center of an open flat at the foot of our rimrock.

In those days we had never heard of passing up a chance to kill a wolf. In a second we were pumping lead into the pack, but with more excitement than accuracy; how to aim a steep downhill shot is always confusing. When our rifles were empty, the old wolf was down, and a pup was dragging a leg into impassable side-rocks.

We reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then, and have known ever since, that there was something new to me in those eyes—something known only to her and to the mountain. I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters' paradise. But after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the mountain agreed with such a view.

* * *

Since then I have lived to see state after state extirpate its wolves. I have watched the face of many a newly wolfless mountain, and seen the south-facing slopes wrinkle with a maze of new deer trails. I have seen every edible bush and seedling browsed, first to anaemic desuetude, and then to death. I have seen every edible tree defoliated to the height of a saddlehorn. Such a mountain looks as if someone had given God a new pruning shears, and forbidden Him all other exercise. In the end the starved bones of the hoped-for deer herd, dead of its own too-much, bleach with the bones of the dead sage, or molder under the high-lined junipers.

Leopold, Aldo: A Sand County Almanac, and Sketches Here and There, 1948, Oxford University Press, New York, 1987, pp. 129-132.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:04 AM   #37
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I agree with CA357. It is ok to have a discussion and ok to disagree.
But it is wrong to resort to name calling.

Please refer to this post:
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f2/welcome-all-please-read-8250/
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:07 PM   #38
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Unlike members of the various pro-wolf organizations, the constituents of US congressmen from Idaho and Montana want the wolf population in their states drastically reduced. This legislation had broad bi-partisan support in the US congress. Furthermore, the Obama administration wants wolves de-listed.

This one will pass muster when it comes to SCOTUS.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:29 PM   #39
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Unlike members of the various pro-wolf organizations, the constituents of US congressmen from Idaho and Montana want the wolf population in their states drastically reduced. This legislation had broad bi-partisan support in the US congress. Furthermore, the Obama administration wants wolves de-listed.

This one will pass muster when it comes to SCOTUS.
I do not disagree that these wolves are in need of delisting! The USFWS does not disagree with the need to delist the wolves! In fact, they have actually tried on several occasions to "delist" them but have been sued into oblivion by these "environmental groups" made up of lawyers who make their living on suing the Federal government on procedure issues that have nothing to do with biology, thereby clogging the courts, and cutting funding to other areas in need of protection.

The problem I have is that it is NOT within the powers of the Congress nor the President to "delist" the wolves. With all due respect, I think many here jumped into concluding that just because I am a biologist and a conservationist, that I would be on the side of those who are trying to keep the wolves on the list. Oh contraire! What I DO have a problem with is HOW they were supposedly "delisted."

The mere fact that Congress took it upon themselves to "designate the status" of a species, sets a dangerous precedent for other "politically charged" species; species that DO need the protections of the ESA. I can think of 2 species right now, that could be wiped off the map with a stroke of a pen, just because a legislator has some big-businessman or corporation in his back pocket and to hell with the biology. A dangerous road indeed!

With all due respect, just because it was the right thing to do, and needed to be done, does not mean that the Congress was correct in passing legislation to do so. I would have thought that out of all people, you guys here on this forum would understand the consequences of an over reaching Congress no matter how they over reached. Or does that just go for the Second Amendment?

Congress does not have the knowledge nor the expertise that is needed to make this kind of decision, that is why the task was designated by Congress to the USFWS in 1966 through legislation via the predecessor of the ESA (and later on the NMFS too.)

Let's just think about this differently...suppose the Congress decided that white-tailed dear SHOULD be protected by the ESA? How would you you feel about their over reaching powers then? Having Congress dictate that you couldn't hunt dear anymore? It's the same over reaching of powers but this time, you may not like the consequences.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:36 PM   #40
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Flat Tire, I deleted your post. You are treading very close to the edge of my tolerance.
Interesting ! It is always tough on people not in Montana, Wyoming or Idaho to understand what has happened in these states. In this first article Rex Rammel is telling people to shoot a Federal Endangered Animal and you won't be prosecuted by the local authorities. Why is he saying that ? Because he has seen the damage to Deer and Elk herds, lets do the math. Each wolf kills four times a month. 800 wolves in the state kill 3200 each month. 3200 x 12 months =38,400 dead Deer and Elk each year. 5 years =192,000 or no more Deer and Elk. The pro life group never does the math.

Former gov candidate urges residents to kill wolves | KTVB.COM Boise

VICTOMNOMORE - comes on here and tells me I am wrong and all gray wolves are the same. Thats like saying all dogs are the same. So I called her a fool. Sorry- But wolves are different and the wolves they brought here are big. And the Timber wolf on the east of the US is as big as our coyotes here. And I just have to include this, you are the moderator and your avatar is very offensive, you disgraced the president of the US. You'll say that's my freedom of speech, and so is it my freedom to correct someone that doesn't know there is a difference between wolves. Come to Idaho, Montana or Wyoming and see the animal in action.

Here is what is going on- it just doesn't make your local paper. And your tax dollar is paying for it.
Wolves kill 120 sheep at ranch near Dillon
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