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Old 04-12-2012, 05:21 PM   #31
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Yes I have, as I said I have nothing against hunting, have done so myself, and likely will again.

Sheesh what is with you guys? If someone asks a question you don't have to get wadded panties over it...

It seems to me that wolf, bear, and coyote hunting is just another necessary evil in a deeply flawed system.

If I thought you guys were bad people for doing it, I wouldn't have asked.
When you come onto a hunting forum, and deduce from two answers that the animals being hunted are "just another unlucky group in the capitalist game", you should expect to get some hackles up. I only answered this on the OFF CHANCE you are sincere.

FWIW, I personally think you are a trolling anti, so I'll just report this thread and let the mods decide.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:40 PM   #32
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Here some interesting numbers
http://www.nps.gov/yell/naturescience/wolves.htm

This is just for yellowstone, but I think the sample size (98 wolves) is large enough to get an average number of elm killed per wolf

In 2011, there were about 267 elk killed by about 98 wolves. Call 300 elk by 100 wolves, that gives us a three to one kill ratio per year, that gives us 900 elk for 300 wolves, even if you double that, it's a much lower number than the 7200 claimed earlier in this thread.

Couple with that this data
http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/departments/hunting/pdfs/regulations_ch7_SumMap.pdf

Which says that of 6 herds under wolf predation all but one are above objective.

This sure seems to me to say that wolves are not killing off the elk. The only reason for hunting wolves is that they slightly decrease the profit margins for ranchers.

IMHO, that's not a good enough reason.

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Old 04-12-2012, 05:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Chandler51

When you come onto a hunting forum, and deduce from two answers that the animals being hunted are "just another unlucky group in the capitalist game", you should expect to get some hackles up. I only answered this on the OFF CHANCE you are sincere.

FWIW, I personally think you are a trolling anti, so I'll just report this thread and let the mods decide.
Well your part right, I am anti hunting predatory animals without good cause. And your right, I shouldn't have let my personal politics into it.

However, my question is sincere, I'm most definitely not against hunting, I even posted in a thread asking about bow hunting turkeys (which is my goal to do next season).

I think your troll assertion is deeply insulting, but I'm not going to report you
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:04 PM   #34
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Hmmm, that explanation doesn't seem to make sense, given that predators tend to kill the weakest of the herd, so they wouldn't have lasted the winters anyway...
Tell that to the woman who lost her child or pet, and I repeat child......We have a lot of coy dogs and yotes in the area, they're killing off the deer pop. they go after the fawns first then the does......They come in peoples back yards and help themselves to what ever is available......By the way, wild turkeys eat more quail eggs than do wild hogs in certain areas......My cousin was run up a tree by a pack of wild dogs while walking to his hunting stand. Playing it safe his gun wasn't loaded, he dropped every thing and ran for the tree...... Shoot the SOB'S...........
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:22 PM   #35
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Well your part right, I am anti hunting predatory animals without good cause. And your right, I shouldn't have let my personal politics into it.

However, my question is sincere, I'm most definitely not against hunting, I even posted in a thread asking about bow hunting turkeys (which is my goal to do next season).

I think your troll assertion is deeply insulting, but I'm not going to report you
Yeah, your original replies weren't insulting at all. Like I said, the mods will sort it out.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:28 PM   #36
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Here some interesting numbers
http://www.nps.gov/yell/naturescience/wolves.htm

This is just for yellowstone, but I think the sample size (98 wolves) is large enough to get an average number of elm killed per wolf

In 2011, there were about 267 elk killed by about 98 wolves. Call 300 elk by 100 wolves, that gives us a three to one kill ratio per year, that gives us 900 elk for 300 wolves, even if you double that, it's a much lower number than the 7200 claimed earlier in this thread.

Couple with that this data
http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/departments/hunting/pdfs/regulations_ch7_SumMap.pdf

Which says that of 6 herds under wolf predation all but one are above objective.

This sure seems to me to say that wolves are not killing off the elk. The only reason for hunting wolves is that they slightly decrease the profit margins for ranchers.

IMHO, that's not a good enough reason.
All winter when I am out snowmobiling all I see are dead elk. Nobody comes out and counts how many. You don't need a good enough reason, it's fun.

http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/elk-wolves-feb03.htm
http://www.saveelk.com/wolf_003.htm
http://saveelk.com/wolf_001.htm
http://mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/wolf_pics.htm
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:30 PM   #37
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Tell that to the woman who lost her child or pet, and I repeat child......We have a lot of coy dogs and yotes in the area, they're killing off the deer pop. they go after the fawns first then the does......They come in peoples back yards and help themselves to what ever is available......By the way, wild turkeys eat more quail eggs than do wild hogs in certain areas......My cousin was run up a tree by a pack of wild dogs while walking to his hunting stand. Playing it safe his gun wasn't loaded, he dropped every thing and ran for the tree...... Shoot the SOB'S...........
Is there a news story about someone loosing a child to coyotes? Is the even a single documented proven case of this happening? If so, I would greatly appreciate a link.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:37 PM   #38
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All winter when I am out snowmobiling all I see are dead elk. Nobody comes out and counts how many. You don't need a good enough reason, it's fun.

http://www.forwolves.org/ralph/elk-wolves-feb03.htm
http://www.saveelk.com/wolf_003.htm
http://saveelk.com/wolf_001.htm
http://mtmultipleuse.org/endangered/wolf_pics.htm
How do you know no one is counting them? How do you know it was wolves that killed them?

I agree, killing animals does have a fun element, but then so does drinking too much, or smoking pot... Sorry, edging towards my personal politics again
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:39 PM   #39
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Yeah, your original replies weren't insulting at all. Like I said, the mods will sort it out.
Um, no, they weren't. And yes, they will
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:45 PM   #40
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How do you know no one is counting them? How do you know it was wolves that killed them?

I agree, killing animals does have a fun element, but then so does drinking too much, or smoking pot... Sorry, edging towards my personal politics again
The elk were dismantled is a circle. The cougar will hide it. The wolves dismantle in a circle. I watched this when they were protected. You don't know anything about what you are talking about. Fish and Game doesn't have the budget to count them all.
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