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Old 04-10-2013, 09:29 PM   #11
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I don't post here to criticize you, or anyone else posting here, or even get you to change your mind. There are MANY who simple come here for information and advise but never enter into the discussion. It is those who I post for.
The bases for my advise is 50+ years of hunting, testing, and researching this subject. Use it or disregard it as you please!
You have not criticized or tried to change my mind. I think your an asset here. To be honest, I don't have access to the article in question. I don't think others do either. The opening post kind of gave away what it was about. My concern is that someone that does come here for information will think using a premium bullet will make up for shooter short comings. Your rule about 7mm or smaller and 2800fps or faster does not take into the effective range. There is also a rule I use for large heavy skinned game. 1500fpe on impact. That can be used for any caliber, cartridge, bullet weight. It makes it simple. That tells you the max effective range. An example would be. I am going Elk hunting. I have loaded up some Sierra .308 165gr Game Kings w/ a MV of 2700fps for a .308. Using a 1500fpe base it becomes a 300 yard rifle and cartridge for elk. Are there variables, sure. But it is less likely you will have a wounded animal wandering for a day or 2 before it dies. With a 150 yard zero it gives a Max Point blank of 273 yards w/ a 5" kill zone. Now we know an Elk has larger then a 5" kill zone. Call it insurance. The actual kill zone is double the 5", so slight hunter error becomes a none issue as does a 2" wind drift. Using the correct bullet and an appropriate caliber is always 1st and foremost, but knowing the limitations of what you are using, plus your own is no less important.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:10 AM   #12
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You have not criticized or tried to change my mind. I think your an asset here. To be honest, I don't have access to the article in question. I don't think others do either. The opening post kind of gave away what it was about. My concern is that someone that does come here for information will think using a premium bullet will make up for shooter short comings. Your rule about 7mm or smaller and 2800fps or faster does not take into the effective range. There is also a rule I use for large heavy skinned game. 1500fpe on impact. That can be used for any caliber, cartridge, bullet weight. It makes it simple. That tells you the max effective range. An example would be. I am going Elk hunting. I have loaded up some Sierra .308 165gr Game Kings w/ a MV of 2700fps for a .308. Using a 1500fpe base it becomes a 300 yard rifle and cartridge for elk. Are there variables, sure. But it is less likely you will have a wounded animal wandering for a day or 2 before it dies. With a 150 yard zero it gives a Max Point blank of 273 yards w/ a 5" kill zone. Now we know an Elk has larger then a 5" kill zone. Call it insurance. The actual kill zone is double the 5", so slight hunter error becomes a none issue as does a 2" wind drift. Using the correct bullet and an appropriate caliber is always 1st and foremost, but knowing the limitations of what you are using, plus your own is no less important.
You missed the point! The key word in my post is 'GENERAL' !
We can talk about the detailed circumstances all you want, but I will stand by the 'GENERAL' rule I stated above. I am giving this advise to try and limit the number of wounded and lost big game animals caused by unknowing hunters who do not understand terminal ballistics!
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:33 AM   #13
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I live in the Rocky Mtns. big game hunting is a way of life. Wounded and lost game are by far the result of poorly placed shots than bullet construction. There is no proof that the number of lost game animals has improved because of "Super" bullets.

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Old 04-11-2013, 02:41 AM   #14
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http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Book.htm

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/book2.html
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:19 AM   #15
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I live in the Rocky Mtns. big game hunting is a way of life. Wounded and lost game are by far the result of poorly placed shots than bullet construction. There is no proof that the number of lost game animals has improved because of "Super" bullets.
Yes there is! I have witnessed it way to many times, that is why I try to prevent it when ever I can. Miss placed shots have nothing to do with this topic. Marksmanship is a totally different topic than terminal ballistics. By the way I was born and raised in CO and hunted there (in the Rocky Mountains) for 40+ years (I do miss it, but CO has been totally Califofnicated!!!)
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:02 AM   #16
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Just 40 years? Hell you didn't wear out a cheap saddle Jim. Yes seriously Colorado has been ruined for 30 years. I do believe the propaganda of marketing has created hunters who think a "Silver" bullet is the answer.

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Old 04-12-2013, 12:49 PM   #17
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There is a difference in bullets. Speer 270gr 9.3(.366) do have a tendancy to shed there jacket and loose more mass weight on heavy game compared w/ 286gr partitions. They work fine on whitetail, but are not the bullet for heavy game.

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Old 04-12-2013, 05:45 PM   #18
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Just 40 years? Hell you didn't wear out a cheap saddle Jim. Yes seriously Colorado has been ruined for 30 years. I do believe the propaganda of marketing has created hunters who think a "Silver" bullet is the answer.
You are right, the saddle I rode for 25+ years is still good, but I can't say that for the number of stocks I broke while in the saddle.
I don't believe there a 'silver' or magic bullet. But some bullets just do a better job than others when use under the proper circumstances.
I equate 'bullets' to 'tires'! You take a vehicle like a PU and use it from everything from urban commuting to off roading and the make very little changes except the tires. A good gun is the same. With a simple 'load/bullet' change you can use a gun for many different applications.
The 'general' rule I use is stated above and it seems to take some of the over complication away from bullet selection today. There are so many bullets out there to chose from it is even complicated for someone who knows termaimal ballistics and try to keep up with the science!!!
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:50 PM   #19
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There are so many options. I could not imagine being on a budget when it comes to the actual cartridge. We are straining to keep it all together as everything keeps increasing, but I make less now. If I have the chance to go on a once in a lifetime hunt, I can load ammo from my stock that I paid very little for compared with todays prices on just components. I could not imagine paying $65.00 for 20 cartridges. I have a co-worker that has booked a trip to South Africa for next year. He is taking a cheap .308 rifle w/ a cheap scope and cheap ammo, but it is 180gr which is required for plains game. He will hunt 5 different animals and hunts for a few days a year and shoots less. This is what Jim is talking about. This is the same brain surgeon that told a co-worker that a red dot could not hold zero on a 5.45 AK, just too much recoil. The biggest problem is not the lack of knowledge about terminal ballistics, it is ignorance and stupidity.

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Old 04-13-2013, 02:35 AM   #20
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Like I said, that is why I post on line. If my advise helps anyone to be a better, more humane, hunter I am happy.
This is not a perfect world and Murphy is alive and well!
The only way to fight ignorance is through education, there is no cure for stupid!!!

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