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Old 01-17-2014, 04:46 PM   #81
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To get an idea of what a bear attack is like. Take a spare tire and have someone roll it of a steep cliff or gravel pit banking towards you. Just try to shoot it as it rolls and bounce's at full speed. Making sure the other person is well out of harms way and safe. (safety first)

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Old 02-03-2014, 07:39 PM   #82
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Default The best defence from bears is between your ears

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Hi! Im wondering what is suitable for defence against big bears(kodiak, grizzly, polar) bear.

I hear that many people uses 44 mag revolvers, but what i see is that the maximum energy you can get with that caliber, is around 2000 joule(with 340 grains bullets). Is that really enough? I know that these are heavy bullets, but still, is that enough power?

Many people uses big caliber bolt rifles. What do you think is the smallest caliber to use for such a purpose? My biggest caliber is a 30-06, is that big enough? If so, what ammo should i use?

I also have a 870, and think that this would be the ultimate bear-defence gun for me, due the is ruggedness, reliability and the fact that it is easier to operate when the adrenaline is pumping, then bolt rifles. Are the slugs deadly enough? Anyone knows how much energy is produced by a slug? What kinds of slugs would be best? I have only gotten the smooth - standard barrel.

Going into Bear country its best to study them and learn as much of up to date bare awareness methods being currently taught.
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Old 02-03-2014, 07:53 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by TerryM View Post
To get an idea of what a bear attack is like. Take a spare tire and have someone roll it of a steep cliff or gravel pit banking towards you. Just try to shoot it as it rolls and bounce's at full speed. Making sure the other person is well out of harms way and safe. (safety first)
I guess what your saying is that a shotgun would be in order
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Old 02-03-2014, 09:17 PM   #84
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Default Bear Guns are like Four Wheel Drive

This thread is found in every gun forum, some say is shotgun's, some the magnum rifle and everyone's favorite the handgun, this is repeated over and over.
All I can say is The best tool ever devised to deal with bears is between your ears.

Study on bears, understand them as much as you can, what attracts them and what sets them off.

http://www.bearsmart.com/becoming-bear-smart/play/bear-encounters

http://www.arcticwebsite.com/BearSurvival.ht

http://www.centerforwildlifeinformation.org/BeBearAware/BearSpray/bearspray.html

If your plan is hopeing for a brain shot, get it right the first time, think big, hairy pissed off terminator tearing you up with teeth and claws while throwing you round like a ragdoll.

The eyes are boney loops on the sides the skull, and the nasal cavity is not a direct avenue to the brain as most would suppose, you get a chance look one over I'd suggest you do.
I'd studied a tagged brown bear skull for hours thinking the very same thing you fellas think (good ole brain shot), in the end its best to avoid them as much as you can by how you conduct yourself, even if you'd of fatally shot a attacking bear theirs no guarentee that it wont kill you before it expires
If the Brain was a primary effective target to immobilizea agressive bear it'd be taught relentlessly to all people that work afield in Bear Country, But they dont and for good reason (very hard to hit).
At best agencies and outdoor professionals primary ploy is to train to get bears to lose interest (bear spray) or as last resort to curtail a attack by wounding the bear with a large heavy projectile that is capable of making its way through thick hide, muscle, sinue, bone, to hurt the bear and get it to disengage its attack.




Any place you walk, City&Town or Rivers & Mountains, you pay attention to where you are and your surroundings, allert to threats, wither the seedy end of town on Saturday night or a willow lined river bank, (You get my drift?) are just as hazardus.
Pound for pound, push for bite the bear wins every time, You choose to ignore the warning signs nature provides at your own risk.
Hunting Bear a .243winchester or a .38 will do (documentd cases of this).
A enraged or agressive bear pumping with adrinalin coursing through its veins is a whole diffrent story!
(documented case of young griz attack on YK delta hit by sabot slugs a total of 9 times out of 14 rounds fired in the 25 second attack only 2 were in a vitals area the rest sprued off bone and musle).
A firearm as defence from Grizz attack? If your carelessness has gotten you to that point their's only one option, allot of Hurt in one shot and thats 12ga Slugs, anything else is forplay before the Human Buffet opens for business.

Like they say there is no Crying in Baseball and No brain shots on bears.


Bear Guns are like Four Wheel Drive.
A little common sense goes a Loooong way in avoiding a sticky situation!







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Old 02-03-2014, 09:32 PM   #85
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Well, if we could pry the hippies off the trees long enough, it shouldn't be that hard to poison the bear population to the point that there was enough isolated habitat to prevent ever crossing paths with a bear in the wild, but NOOOoooOOOO, that wouldn't be "green".

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Old 02-04-2014, 01:51 PM   #86
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I would be more likely to trust a shotgun. Simply because the shotgun is the weapon I have the most experience. Pistols are the weapon I have the least amount of experience. I can say this much a long gun is going to have a lot more stopping power than any pistol.

It doesn't take a lot to kill a bear. Inuits hunt polar bear with a 22 wmr so they don't damage the bears pelt. But the bear often runs for 15 minutes before it drops. Inuits are expert trackers who seldom lose their quarry. But to get an instant stop you need a cartridge that puts at least 3,000 ft lb of energy on the target. 3" 12 ga shotgun slugs barely meet that criteria.

There are two studies quoted in this wikipedia article. One surgeon performed his study during WWII when large caliber rifles were commonly used by soldiers on the battlefield. He found that battlefield wounds caused a lot of hydrostatic shock. Some soldiers who were hit in the body had brain damage from the hydraulic effects of large caliber bullets. Yet in Vietnam where small caliber rifles were used by both sides doctors did not find evidence of hydrostatic shock. In fact Dr Fackler saw so little evidence of hydrostatic shock in Vietnam he didn't believe hydrostatic shock exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock

Personally, I want a weapon that is going to cause hydrostatic shock. I am not going to wait until the bear is very close to shoot. If the bear is behaving aggressively I am going to start shooting at about 30 yards.

People say a bear can sneak up on you. I have a hard time with believing a bear has such stealth. The bear is in no hurry when he is searching for food. You are not going to hear steady foot steps. But you will hear leaves rustling or snow being disturbed. A bobcat is one the most stealthy animals in the woods. I usually hear a bobcat approaching my stand. I have severe tinnitus. Someone with good hearing can certainly hear a bear approaching.

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Old 02-04-2014, 02:01 PM   #87
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In my experience bears can be extremely quite while moving through the woods, when I heard the one I shot I thought it was a coyote until I saw the black.

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Old 02-04-2014, 02:40 PM   #88
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People say a bear can sneak up on you. I have a hard time with believing a bear has such stealth.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OH YES THEY CAN. The first time it happens to you shall I say you may have to change your draws. It sure stands up the hair on the back of your neck when a big old Brown Bear pops up 50 feet from you. With spit flying and teeth popping. Most of the time it is a bluff charge. Then again it only take once to end up bear scat.
One thing in Alaska, when out in the bush one is lucky to be able to see 75 yards in thick brush.

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Old 02-04-2014, 02:52 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRK97 View Post
In my experience bears can be extremely quite while moving through the woods, when I heard the one I shot I thought it was a coyote until I saw the black.
they are like a ghost in the woods (at least Black bears in my neck of the woods)
I was trying to make a decision on getting a 10mm or another 45 recently and come across this info on a Wiki page about the 10mm

In military use, the government of Denmark has issued the Glock 20 to the Slædepatruljen Sirius (Sirius Sledge Patrol) headquartered in Daneborg, Northeast Greenland.[4] The pistols were issued as a defense against polar bears which the unit encounters during patrols
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:30 PM   #90
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The reason that animals appear to have supernatural stealth is people walk to fast when they are in the woods. When you are in an area where dangerous animals are present it is wise to walk slowly and stop frequently. When you do stop make sure you are behind cover.

Most animals ignore tractors so I get to spend a lot of time observing wildlife. Black bears are the only bears I have spent any length of time observing. Black bears move a lot like a deer. They are in no hurry. For a black bear everything in the woods is like an item on a buffet. bears do not move very fast unless they are migrating. They only take a few steps before they have found something else to eat. They eat insects, berries, tree buds, roots, carrion, the list is endless. Because the bears move so slowly they appear to have great stealth.

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