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-   -   Bear Defence Arms and Calibers (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f50/bear-defence-arms-calibers-87172/)

Norwegian 03-22-2013 05:21 PM

Bear Defence Arms and Calibers
 
Hi! Im wondering what is suitable for defence against big bears(kodiak, grizzly, polar) bear.

I hear that many people uses 44 mag revolvers, but what i see is that the maximum energy you can get with that caliber, is around 2000 joule(with 340 grains bullets). Is that really enough? I know that these are heavy bullets, but still, is that enough power?

Many people uses big caliber bolt rifles. What do you think is the smallest caliber to use for such a purpose? My biggest caliber is a 30-06, is that big enough? If so, what ammo should i use?

I also have a 870, and think that this would be the ultimate bear-defence gun for me, due the is ruggedness, reliability and the fact that it is easier to operate when the adrenaline is pumping, then bolt rifles. Are the slugs deadly enough? Anyone knows how much energy is produced by a slug? What kinds of slugs would be best? I have only gotten the smooth - standard barrel.

eatmydust 03-22-2013 05:38 PM

For "defense" I'm assuming you are talking within 20-30 yards or less.

A 12 ga. shotgun with any modern saboted or rifled slug is very potent bear medicine. Here I would also choose 3" magnum shells!

A .30-06 is also potent medicine, but I'd choose the pump shotgun for ease of operation and reload. I wouldn't want to rely on a single round to stop a big bear.

Jagermeister 03-22-2013 05:44 PM

"what i see is that the maximum energy you can get with that caliber, is around 2000 joule(with 340 grains bullets)."
Ok, In Germany, law resquires a rifle bullet must travel at 2000 jules at 100 meters for large game to include large Russian boar and Red Deer. Germans are very methodical in figuring what is needed take down an animal. Now, a typical .308 is about 160g and carries a force of 2600 joules. I take down large boar with a single shot from a .308. So I recon if you are at a closer range, you can do a lot of damage with a larger grain bullet traveling only 600 juoles slower then a .308. Plus, .44 is a more managable then say a .50 for many. More control, accuracy and less flinching. Quicker if you need a second shot.

Norwegian 03-22-2013 05:51 PM

Thanks for answers!

Yes I was thinking about somewhere around 20-30 meters.

So you think the pump is the way to go? Heard that alaskan guides carries 870 loaded with slugs, is that true?

Are there any reports of slugs killing bears?

Is there a big difference between 3" and 3,5" slugs in terms of stopping power and energy produced?

Sniper03 03-22-2013 05:55 PM

Norwiegian,

The 44 Mag Hangun or other weapon of that type is only good for last resort backup protection in my opinion. Anyone that goes Grizzly or Kodiak hunting better be thinking of a rifle from around 338 Win. and up calibers. Most people do not believe how big and tuff they actualy are and how much determination they have even after being shot with good placement. So if that was my plan to Grizzly or Kodiak hunt as you stated, Bigger is Better!

03

Norwegian 03-22-2013 07:10 PM

Sniper03,

I have to agree with you that 338 and up must be good for hunting, as it kills faster, which means more humane and secure kill.

But for the purpose of defence within 50m/50yds, the slug may even be better than a bolt action of some of the higher calibers, due to projectile weight(around 1oz). Im not stating, only wondering.

Jagermeister 03-22-2013 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norwegian (Post 1186471)
Sniper03,

I have to agree with you that 338 and up must be good for hunting, as it kills faster, which means more humane and secure kill.

But for the purpose of defence within 50m/50yds, the slug may even be better than a bolt action of some of the higher calibers, due to projectile weight(around 1oz). Im not stating, only wondering.

Try shooting a rifle at extremely close or point blank range. Not easy. A hunting rifle is not made for these circumstances. I have seen hunters get run over by boars before they could get their rifles up. It is easy to get "inside" the weapon perimeter. Bears are just as fast and will surprise you very quickly. A handgun is more appropriate.

Dearhunter 03-22-2013 07:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Well, I will stick with my S&W 44 mag as a "just in case" protection.
Attachment 92220

JTJ 03-22-2013 07:29 PM

The 44 magnum pistol is not reliable for taking down a large bear. You might kill the bear but more than likely it will kill you before it dies. The 454 Casull is minimum in a handgun. I carried either a 12 gauge pump with Brenneke slugs or a marlin 336 in 35 Remington. Usually the pump. The Brenneke slug was specific because of its construction. I carried them in my hand. If a bear attacks you will have little warning and will not have time to unsling a rifle. You need short and fast unless of course you are hunting them. Today my choice would be a hot loaded Marlin in 45-70 or 450 Marlin. A short barreled 12 gauge double would not be out of the question since they are faster for 2 shots than a pump and that is probably all you are going to get. I knew one crazy guide that carried a 10 gauge 30" double. He would jam the gun into the bear and pull both triggers. He said it would roll the bear. Some of the guides were carrying African double rifles. Remember, they have to protect their clients.

nitestalker 03-22-2013 07:43 PM

The .44 Mag. is most often carried for Grizz. During an attack your shots will be measured in inches not meters. It is as stated the last resort from a Bear attack. In a Bear attack you will most likely drop your shotgun or rifle during the first charge.
A handgun in a strong holster carried above the waist and in front may provide access during the mauling. Handguns carried low on the side may be difficult to reach when being thrown about like a rag doll.:eek:


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