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Old 01-27-2013, 03:32 AM   #51
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Obama got reelected too. Does that mean he is good for this country!!!
The key to my request was an OPEN MIND! Try it and you will be pleasantly surprised!!!

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Old 01-27-2013, 06:01 AM   #52
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Here is a picture of an exit wound from a 100 gr. sierra btsp. This was a 7pt buck with a field dressed weight of 140 pounds. Shot was approx. 125 yards. I cannot believe for a minute that this round is marginal for deer with heavy bullets. We have lost zero animals with it and have not had a deer travel more than 40 yards after the shot. Mind you I am talking about ranges of 200 yards and under, in my mind that is about the limit in which I feel the 243 will take big game quickly and cleanly.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:04 PM   #53
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Attachment 81897

Here is a picture of an exit wound from a 100 gr. sierra btsp. This was a 7pt buck with a field dressed weight of 140 pounds. Shot was approx. 125 yards. I cannot believe for a minute that this round is marginal for deer with heavy bullets. We have lost zero animals with it and have not had a deer travel more than 40 yards after the shot. Mind you I am talking about ranges of 200 yards and under, in my mind that is about the limit in which I feel the 243 will take big game quickly and cleanly.
The point I am making is proven by your post. If you use a MARGINAL caliber you MUST place realistic limits on your shooting. The problem is that MANY who use marginal calibers DO NOT DO THIS!!!
So for the average hunter who does not take the time to educate themselves I simply say use a larger caliber and don't be limited to the range and angel you can humanly harvest big game.
Just common sense as I see it.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:43 PM   #54
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Jim,
When will you ever give up on this? You have been proven wrong over and over again. Those who have used your suggestion of "common sense," and "an open mind," have been the very ones with the definitive proof that you ignore. Look at what you are really saying in your last post. You are saying that because most hunters are not accurate shooters, then they should use a larger caliber to compensate for it. That point has been proven wrong by hunters and gun writers many many times. Bullet placement is the important element no matter if you are using a .243 or a .338 WM. A gut shot deer is a gut shot deer, period. You are really trying very hard to save face.
CT

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Old 01-27-2013, 06:51 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau

The point I am making is proven by your post. If you use a MARGINAL caliber you MUST place realistic limits on your shooting. The problem is that MANY who use marginal calibers DO NOT DO THIS!!!
So for the average hunter who does not take the time to educate themselves I simply say use a larger caliber and don't be limited to the range and angel you can humanly harvest big game.
Just common sense as I see it.
I see the point your trying to make here and if you read over my post again you will see that I am well aware of the calibers limitations. Hence the self imposed yardage limitation I follow. I however, cannot declare any one particular caliber "marginal" because of its ability to kill at extended ranges. You do realize that in some circles the various 300 magnums are considered inadequate for moose and large bear at longer ranges and angles lol? Most calibers have limitations, that doesn't mean they are marginal for the uses in which they were intended. One of the longest most difficult deer recoveries I was ever involved with was a whitetail deer shot in the flank with a 300 Winchester magnum at close range. We tracked the deer most of the day and the young man ended up shooting the animal twice more before it was over. Bottom line is, even with near 2 tons of muzzle energy shot placement is king!
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:04 PM   #56
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I see the point your trying to make here and if you read over my post again you will see that I am well aware of the calibers limitations. Hence the self imposed yardage limitation I follow. I however, cannot declare any one particular caliber "marginal" because of its ability to kill at extended ranges. You do realize that in some circles the various 300 magnums are considered inadequate for moose and large bear at longer ranges and angles lol? Most calibers have limitations, that doesn't mean they are marginal for the uses in which they were intended. One of the longest most difficult deer recoveries I was ever involved with was a whitetail deer shot in the flank with a 300 Winchester magnum at close range. We tracked the deer most of the day and the young man ended up shooting the animal twice more before it was over. Bottom line is, even with near 2 tons of muzzle energy shot placement is king!
Thank you for seeing the point here. Yes ALL calibers have limitations. BUT I am specifically talking about big game, more specifically deer. I commend you for knowing the limitations of the 243, IT IS THESE LIMITAIONS which prove that when applied to this set of circumstances, deer hunting, it is marginal!
There are other calibers which are marginal for their applications as well. If you look at the facts with an OPEN MIND and use some scientific knowledge you can logically come up with some findings which may not agree with opinions based on myth, emotion, and misinformation.
Sorry you had a 'bad shot' with a 300 WM. And yes, I agree shot placement is the most important part of the equation, second is using the right tool for the job (caliber and bullet).
If you 'use enough gun', as the saying goes, you can humanly take deer at longer distances and take them at more angles (where the better penetration is required). Really very simple when you break it down with an open mind. If you are willing to limit your military snipers they can use a 5.56 also, but I prefer to advice people to 'use enough gun'!
I am not telling you to stop using the 243, you obviously understand it's limitations, BUT many do not. Thus to limit the number of animals who would be lost by someone who is not of your understanding I ask that they at least a 260 Remington. The statements I am making and the advise I am giving is for general use.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:23 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau

Thank you for seeing the point here. Yes ALL calibers have limitations. BUT I am specifically talking about big game, more specifically deer. I commend you for knowing the limitations of the 243, IT IS THESE LIMITAIONS which prove that when applied to this set of circumstances, deer hunting, it is marginal!
There are other calibers which are marginal for their applications as well. If you look at the facts with an OPEN MIND and use some scientific knowledge you can logically come up with some findings which may not agree with opinions based on myth, emotion, and misinformation.
Sorry you had a 'bad shot' with a 300 WM. And yes, I agree shot placement is the most important part of the equation, second is using the right tool for the job (caliber and bullet).
If you 'use enough gun', as the saying goes, you can humanly take deer at longer distances and take them at more angles (where the better penetration is required). Really very simple when you break it down with an open mind. If you are willing to limit your military snipers they can use a 5.56 also, but I prefer to advice people to 'use enough gun'!
I am not telling you to stop using the 243, you obviously understand it's limitations, BUT many do not. Thus to limit the number of animals who would be lost by someone who is not of your understanding I ask that they at least a 260 Remington. The statements I am making and the advise I am giving is for general use.
Fair enough. The "bad shot" with the win mag was not mine btw. I simply helped recover the animal that walked away from "enough gun lol"
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:33 AM   #58
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923,

I would recommend the Hornady 95 Grain SST *Superformance round! Great for deer!
You do not want to use the Hornady V series for hunting deer.
Good luck for you and the boy! Nothing better than being in the field with your son and the thrill of him taking his first deer! Memories that remain for ever!

03

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Old 01-28-2013, 04:45 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingrider View Post
Fair enough. The "bad shot" with the win mag was not mine btw. I simply helped recover the animal that walked away from "enough gun lol"
I can relate to that! That is the reason we are having this discussion. I have always been in better physical condition than most of those I hunt with and there for I have been the one task with tracking and recovery of MANY wounded animals. Most were elk shot with a 243, 270, or 25-06. I started looking hard at WHY this was happening. Many of those wounds were the result of properly placed shots. I call it 'bullet failure'. After about 40 years of experience, research, and testing WITH AN OPEN MIND I have come to so logical conclusions as a result of my findings.
As I said, the advice is give is general advice.
Have a good day and good hunting!!!
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