[utf59]

Actually, I think this was pretty much the genesis of the problem, why we have the difference in culture re guns today. Aroung 1790 the first gun control laws were enacted, 2 years after British settlement - you can hardly blame the Govt being a bit uh, leery of those (recently released) convicts having ready access to firearms

Not to mention the spot of trouble they had recently had with some armed colonists in another part of the world.

[Gatekeeper]

The U.S. side of IPSC is USPSA. We don't have the 5lb trigger minimum requirement that IPSC does, but we are limited to 10rds in the magazine. The Glock 34 is the current king of production in the US, but in Europe with the trigger pull rules, it is the CZ-75 Sp01 Shadow.
I don't know if they are available to you or not zhuk, but you might want to give the CZ 75 Sp-01 or a Shadow a look. The IPSC 5 pound minimum is tested on the pull of the double action first shot since DA/SA pistols start with the hammer de-cocked.
Tuned Shadows have a very smooth DA first shot pull around 6lb and subsequent SA pulls are around 2lbs and very crisp.
That, a heavy all steel frame for recoil control, and a magazine capacity of 19rds has made it the production gun of choice internationally.

Oh and for me, they point exactly like a 1911
I've tried the XDm and the M&P pro but after trying a buddies Sp-01
my soon to be new production setup is a CZ Shadow from the CZ Custom Shop. Just gotta save $$ for a couple more weeks

[zhuk]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

The U.S. side of IPSC is USPSA. We don't have the 5lb trigger minimum requirement that IPSC does, but we are limited to 10rds in the magazine. The Glock 34 is the current king of production in the US, but in Europe with the trigger pull rules, it is the CZ-75 Sp01 Shadow.
I don't know if they are available to you or not zhuk, but you might want to give the CZ 75 Sp-01 or a Shadow a look. The IPSC 5 pound minimum is tested on the pull of the double action first shot since DA/SA pistols start with the hammer de-cocked.
Tuned Shadows have a very smooth DA first shot pull around 6lb and subsequent SA pulls are around 2lbs and very crisp.
That, a heavy all steel frame for recoil control, and a magazine capacity of 19rds has made it the production gun of choice internationally.

Oh and for me, they point exactly like a 1911
I've tried the XDm and the M&P pro but after trying a buddies Sp-01
my soon to be new production setup is a CZ Shadow from the CZ Custom Shop. Just gotta save $$ for a couple more weeks

Thanks for that, Gate.

Yeah we also have a 10-rnd mag limit - for civilian use, period. I have shot the CZ Shadow once, have to agree its a beautifully engineered pistol! And indeed I was more accurate with it too than the club USP I normally use, due to its weight. But my semi-dodgy wrist gave me grief afterwards so that's why I was going to go the strictly polymer route, and something which has low recoil if possible. To that end, why I'm leaning towards the M&P9L even with the trigger from hell lol - It just fits my (ridiculously small) hand the way nothing else does. I know S&W say the MP is DAO, but from the descriptions of the action I've read (partially cocked striker when racked, ala the Glock?) I'm not so sure

Daresay whatever I choose there's going to be a significant break-in period...and I don't mean just for the gun Think its going to take a while to get used to something other than the club HK which I've been using for 1 year, and which has never really fit.

In fact, today racks up exactly one year I've been licensed, which is a handy coincidence. About time I got my own firearm...while we can still have pistols, cos you never know!

[Gatekeeper]

No problem, I just thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't seen one. You don't see too many CZ's being used over here.

There are lots of things you can do to your 9L trigger to smooth it up. I've read alot of guys recommend getting a 9L and doing some trigger work yourself over the m&p pro. I've read some links before on DIY triggerjobs for the M&P or possibly you could install some drop in parts from Apex which look pretty easy to do (reads: hard to screw up)
I've read that much of the "grit" in the pull has to do with the angle of the engagement edges of the firing pin block. You could re-profile/polish it yourself or install drop-in parts one at a time checking until you smooth it up and reach the 5lb mark.
I'll see if I can find those links for ya.

Oh and Happy anniversary!

[zhuk]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

No problem, I just thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't seen one. You don't see too many CZ's being used over here.

There are lots of things you can do to your 9L trigger to smooth it up. I've read alot of guys recommend getting a 9L and doing some trigger work yourself over the m&p pro. I've read some links before on DIY triggerjobs for the M&P or possibly you could install some drop in parts from Apex which look pretty easy to do (reads: hard to screw up)
I've read that much of the "grit" in the pull has to do with the angle of the engagement edges of the firing pin block. You could re-profile/polish it yourself or install drop-in parts one at a time checking until you smooth it up and reach the 5lb mark.
I'll see if I can find those links for ya.

Oh and Happy anniversary!

Hey thanks mate!

Had my own totally unexpected celebration of sorts today, by somehow managing to come first in my grade (B optics) during today's service rifle comp? Don't think anyone was more suprised by that than I was lol...particularly considering it was a 3 distance shoot (300/200/100m) in all 3 positions. Have to say the sling I received from Don here (one very kind dude!) played a large part in that


On that trigger...hmm. From what Ive been able to ascertain (and finding really definitive info in straight language is like getting facts outta the Firearms Registry lol) trigger jobs aren't allowed in Production...I think. The rules state:

Modifications, other than minor detailing (the removal of burrs/and or adjustments unavoidably required in order to fit replacement OFM parts or components, and/or identifying marks which add or remove negligible weight to/from magazines) are prohibited.

I am going to definitively check on that though. The PTA (permit to acquire) hasn't hit my letterbox yet anyway...its been with the Registry 1 month so far, and as I haven't heared of it being knocked back, processing must be proceeding. One thing we always seem to have a lot of is time. You guys would defintely go nuts waiting so long to get your firearms



Have read on an mp-forum that the trigger pull drops from its advertised 6 1/2 lbs to something like 5lbs, once you shoot the hell out of it for a while. Like the idea of that firing-block tweak though! I will have to find out what's allowed. Many thanks for all the info, Gate

[robocop10mm]

With most triggers like any other mechanical device, they mut go through a "break in period". When people come to me seeking a trigger job on a firearm, my first question is "how many rounds have you fired through it?" If less than 500, I tell them to go shoot some more and come back when it is broken in. Almost everyone finds the trigger feels better after the break in period. The metal parts are smoothed and their trigger finger is stronger/trained better.

[zhuk]

Hear you on that robo. Made the 70km round trip-trek to look at both the 9L & Pro today, and even though the pro's trigger is much nicer it has to be said, I'm really not sure about the fibre front sight; moved it around and found it a bit hard to track - or maybe I'm just used to 3-dots. I realise the standard trigger will smooth right out with use, so maybe that's the way to go.

Found out that they would take a 9L trigger and swap it with the Pro's anyway, in order to get it up to Production-minimum 5lb legality....so any benefit you would get with the better trigger will be lost in any case

[TraderJack]

WOW! You fellas need to brush up on USPSA Rules!
The limiting factor of rounds in the magazine are determined by the class you shoot in. Example - Single Stack is 8 rounds, Limited 10 is 10 rounds, etc.
USPSA Rules

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by TraderJack

WOW! You fellas need to brush up on USPSA Rules!
The limiting factor of rounds in the magazine are determined by the class you shoot in. Example - Single Stack is 8 rounds, Limited 10 is 10 rounds, etc.
USPSA Rules

Don't really know what your point is but in USPSA
Single stack is 8rds if using major power factor, 10 if using minor power. Has to fit in "the box", and weigh no more than 43oz with mag inserted

IPSC rules differ from USPSA.
Examples of differences in production class would be 5lb trigger requirement in IPSC, none in USPSA
15rd mag capacity in IPSC, 10 in USPSA

Zhuk lives in Australia and is under IPSC Rules. Apparently though, Australian law does not allow mags with a capacity of more than 10 rounds in any handgun

[zhuk]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Don't really know what your point is but in USPSA
Single stack is 8rds if using major power factor, 10 if using minor power. Has to fit in "the box", and weigh no more than 43oz with mag inserted

IPSC rules differ from USPSA.
Examples of differences in production class would be 5lb trigger requirement in IPSC, none in USPSA
15rd mag capacity in IPSC, 10 in USPSA

Zhuk lives in Australia and is under IPSC Rules. Apparently though, Australian law does not allow mags with a capacity of more than 10 rounds in any handgun

Yeah the 10 round max limit is a whole lot of "fun", particularly on an extended stage. Why we gotta have 5-6 mags on hand (particularly if you are as crap as I tend to be lol)

Not only a 5lb trigger requirement, but no trigger jobs allowed either. So no 'smoothing out' of that gritty stock version Since I would have to forego the Pro's trigger & get the standard one installed instead anyway, I'm leaning towards the 9L now. Figure I can get a F/O front after the fact if I don't like the 3-dot novaks down the track.


I was talking with our pistol RO last week, he was saying how much he missed being able to compete with the .40cal he had to give up; has had to use a .357 since (but apparently its just not the same). Even more painful was him relating how he had to lose his prized semi-auto rifles (can imagine how that must have hurt). Said the first time he shot in the club's service rifle comp after he lost them, he fired the first shot & went to let off the 2nd in a rapid...and "Damn! I forgot, the bolt!"

I only lust after an AK that can never be - just think of how excruciating it would have been to have to prise one outta your grasp and hand it over to be crushed/melted