How the hell is it possibie that an IDPA/IASC shooter is better trained than a cop? - Page 4
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Old 09-08-2013, 03:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
How many Bad guys are expert combat marksman? Have you ever looked at the guns stored in police property rooms? Damn those idiots operate on fear and intimidation not shooting skill. Breaking News! TV cop shows are not real Alice.
Well I agree partially.If you try to rob my store and I have the possibility to take a gun and I'm a well trained shooter, then then shock itself will not help you that much.I'm will kill you, plain and simple.The problem is,as you wrote above, that the fact you own a gun doesn't neccesary mean that you know how to use it.Practical qualification should be mandatory for anyone who wants to apply for a gun licence/ownership(any kind)
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:32 PM   #32
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In my unit I make once fast shooting.
Two IDPA/IPSC targets, distance - 5 meters, 2 rounds in one mag and 2 rounds in a spare mag, weapon loaded, chamber empty. Distance between targets - ca. 1 meter.
Time: 8 sec. for WIST 94 pistol and 10 sec. for P-83 pistol - that was maximum time.
The task was oryginally with totally 8 rounds but my Major said that is too much for everybody.

Shooters task was to draw the weapon, load it - slide back and forward, shot twice to one target, change the mag and shoot twice to another target. He could shoot one bullet in one target and another one to second target and repeat that after mag change.

Before that we shot 5 rounds to standard Polish Military targets "23p" from 25 meters.
One guy who (it is my platoon leader now) was on the mission in Liban or Irak shot about 48 points.

I want to say that most of my coleges never or barely shot fast as an IPSC/IDPA shoters.

To one target he shoot to twice the bottom left and to the other target he shot one i a bottom left "charlie" area and one miss.

Few others was very accurate but really, really, really slow!
After few times they were getting better but if they don't train that way they would be never as fast as IPSC shoters.
They can make 100/100 points on the target as static shoters but never will be as fast and fast and accurate as IPSC/dynamic shoters.

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Old 09-08-2013, 06:28 PM   #33
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+1. The disclaimer might be where you work. If you're a cop in Detroit, the job's gonna be a little more intense than in a suburban or rural community.
Sadly, Detroit officers may NEED to shoot to live, but probably have less experience shooting than most country boys.

When I got into LE (about 30 years ago), people entered the profession partly because they got to shoot guns. They were "gun people". The grew up shooting and had little trouble qualifying.

In the 90's we got a huge influx of "psychologist and counselors" who had NEVER handled a firearm. These folks are now administrators and supervisors. THEY are the terrible shots.

We are now seeing a much higher number of military vets joining the ranks. Qual scores are improving.

The pendulum swings.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:04 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm

Sadly, Detroit officers may NEED to shoot to live, but probably have less experience shooting than most country boys.

When I got into LE (about 30 years ago), people entered the profession partly because they got to shoot guns. They were "gun people". The grew up shooting and had little trouble qualifying.

In the 90's we got a huge influx of "psychologist and counselors" who had NEVER handled a firearm. These folks are now administrators and supervisors. THEY are the terrible shots.

We are now seeing a much higher number of military vets joining the ranks. Qual scores are improving.

The pendulum swings.
That's very interesting.
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:16 PM   #35
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I have 30+ years experience in LE and what you found is not uncommon. Just because cops carry guns does not mean they 'like' them!
When I went into LE in 1974 most cops were 'gun people' but even then proficiency was not high. Today MOST who enter LE have very little if any firearms experience. The 'wars' may change this to some degree, but not a lot.
"Competition" shooters practice A LOT more than LEO's do so they should be better shots. Here In Alabama LEO's are only 'required' to qual once a year. (And due to budget and ammo shortages it is bad) There are a few of us who are the exception to the rule but this is because we have the interest and aptitude to do our own practice and keep our training up on our own. Sad but true!

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Old 09-09-2013, 05:08 PM   #36
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so your telling me that police should spend the majority of their budgets on something that occurs almost never...
The idea that most of us non LEO people will actually need to use a handgun to protect ourselves is pretty low. Still that does no tmake me want to not be proficient. I'm not saying they need to spend the majority of their budgets on shooting. I don't either. But if the need of using a gun was part of my job I'd sure want to be at least as good as the average range rat.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:24 AM   #37
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More time is spent learing when to shoot than how to shoot

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Old 09-10-2013, 06:39 PM   #38
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I've been shot and damn nearly blown up more than once and I have given more than I've received. I've been medevaced twice, both by helo, once as a Marine once as a contracted civilian. I have one thing to say regarding this thread. It takes a lot of balls to pull a carload of sh*theads over at 0300 and approach that car alone not knowing if you're gonna get gutshot out the driver's window. Not knowing if your kids are going to see their daddy at the end of the shift. I wouldn't want to do it. Not with the rules, regs and procedures LEOs have to follow. Talk about restrictive ROE. They have to deal with the scum of the earth every f*ckin day and they are not given much of a fighting chance. There have been too many cops shot dead down here in Florida in the last 20 years. We don't want our cops to be combat-trained because it makes us paranoid. So they aren't. And their names get etched into the monument.

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Old 09-10-2013, 06:47 PM   #39
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We don't want our cops to be combat-trained because it makes us paranoid. So they aren't. And their names get etched into the monument.
If you walk up to a car and someone shoots you combat training isn't going to help you.
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:57 PM   #40
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If you walk up to a car and someone shoots you combat training isn't going to help you.
Combat training may help you assess the situation a little bit better so you don't walk up and get shot.
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