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Old 09-04-2013, 10:57 AM   #1
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Default How the hell is it possibie that an IDPA/IASC shooter is better trained than a cop?

Would you believe it?
Yesterday we were challenged by the local police officers at the range...and let me say it...I have never seen a group of cops being so poorly trained!!!I would never put my life in their hands!!
Missfiring, missing the target, failed to neutralize the target, dangerous weapon handling....

We tried several weapons/platforms, each team has used the same agreed weapons, so nobody would say "Yes, you won...but your rifle was modified":

LONG GUNS
-AK:M70 and Galil
-AR 15: M4
-Remmington 870 tactical
-Remington 700

HANDGUNS
-Glock 17
-Beretta 92
-Taurus revolver(Don't ask what model, honestly I don't know...)

RESULTS(How did the cops performed):
AK:The majority of them neither knew how to use it.Once they fired it, they missed the majority of the targets(claiming that the rifle is uncontrollable...how the hell did we succeed in hitting all the targets?).
AR15:Much better...they knew somehow how to handle it.But still...they were not as fast or accurate as we.
-Remmington 870 tactical:Very very very slow while reloading the rifle and repeating the rifle between target engagement.
Remington 700:Accurate shooting...till 150m pretty good.From 200+ m the accuracy has completely disappeared.Optics has been used.

Glock17:Nice.This time they performed well
Beretta 92:Good, but not exceptional...
Taurus:Really bad performace.It seems that many cops are allergic to revolvers.

I know that many police officers are really well trained, but....this time I have to say that I'm really disappointed and worried.I simply cannot accept it.How the hell is that possible that a group of IASC shooters would ridicole a group of (pseudo) well trained cops?

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:13 AM   #2
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I probably wouldnt believe that was a universal fact across the PD's in America but sadly, it happens more here than it ever should. I had cooks that fired expert but The NYPD needs as many rounds to take down a single perpetrator at 20' as a Cook needs to Record Fire. The cook actually spends more time on the range very often than many PD's. I dont think most of them would have made my Drill Sgt very happy but we didnt either!

I do expect the highest degree of Professionalism and Excellence from those that carry a badge and a gun. Thats not so much to ask when every situation they encounter could mean life or death for them or us is it?

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Old 09-04-2013, 12:32 PM   #3
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My step daughter's boy friend is a Sheriff's Deputy. I like most LEO. But he is an A-Hole. Took him to the range one time. She out shot him with his own gun! I taught her to shoot. He sucks, plain and simple. I have helped to organize and shot in competitions with the Sheriffs dept. We do fund raisers for the Jail Ministry. One of my friends is a deputy and a great shooter. He is also a hunter. Most of the other deputies are no where even close to the level of the non-LEO competitors. It is sad. I tell them that if I had to walk up to a car in the dark every night, I would be a lot more practiced than they are. I told them that if someone breaks into my house I will take care of it myself. They would just come and shoot my kid.

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Old 09-04-2013, 12:44 PM   #4
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This is not news.

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Old 09-04-2013, 12:47 PM   #5
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I only shot a few hundred rounds in the police academy. My department did firearm qualification quarterly. The agencies I now work with are so short on ammo that they did not shoot their AR's during the last qualification. I'm sure that will change soon.
I shoot more in a few months in the summer than the officers do in 3 years.

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Old 09-04-2013, 12:59 PM   #6
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Police have no more training than the average ccw holder when it comes to the average officer. Very little to no time is spent on marksmanship.

The reason for this is shooting people almost never happens in the typical career of a police officer. That's reality.

What police DO spend an aweful lot of time on is use of force conflict resolution and taking people into custody WITHOUT shooting them.

Personal I prefer police focusing on taking time taking suspects alive and calming down the irate citizen.

Don't believe everything you see on tv.

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Old 09-04-2013, 05:09 PM   #7
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Default Man, you're really honest

Quote:
Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38 View Post
I probably wouldnt believe that was a universal fact across the PD's in America but sadly, it happens more here than it ever should. I had cooks that fired expert but The NYPD needs as many rounds to take down a single perpetrator at 20' as a Cook needs to Record Fire. The cook actually spends more time on the range very often than many PD's. I dont think most of them would have made my Drill Sgt very happy but we didnt either!

I do expect the highest degree of Professionalism and Excellence from those that carry a badge and a gun. Thats not so much to ask when every situation they encounter could mean life or death for them or us is it?
I would invite you to the range...if you shoot as well as you think, then I would most probably learn something from you.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:14 PM   #8
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Default If this is true....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick1967 View Post
My step daughter's boy friend is a Sheriff's Deputy. I like most LEO. But he is an A-Hole. Took him to the range one time. She out shot him with his own gun! I taught her to shoot. He sucks, plain and simple. I have helped to organize and shot in competitions with the Sheriffs dept. We do fund raisers for the Jail Ministry. One of my friends is a deputy and a great shooter. He is also a hunter. Most of the other deputies are no where even close to the level of the non-LEO competitors. It is sad. I tell them that if I had to walk up to a car in the dark every night, I would be a lot more practiced than they are. I told them that if someone breaks into my house I will take care of it myself. They would just come and shoot my kid.
...it is not sad....it's unacceptable.I'm a former rifleman of the JNA and I have combat experience.If the situation is as you described it above, then I would join you:I would prefer to take care of it myself(We call it the "Balkan way of solving problems")
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:17 PM   #9
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Default ....and the anti-gun law supporter says that...

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Originally Posted by msup752 View Post
I only shot a few hundred rounds in the police academy. My department did firearm qualification quarterly. The agencies I now work with are so short on ammo that they did not shoot their AR's during the last qualification. I'm sure that will change soon.
I shoot more in a few months in the summer than the officers do in 3 years.
..."you don't need a gun gun for your own protection.There's the police for such things".Sure...there's the police...If the don't kill ME instead of the criminals...OBVIOUSLY BY MISTAKE!!!
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:27 PM   #10
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Default ok....fine....

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Originally Posted by JonM View Post
Police have no more training than the average ccw holder when it comes to the average officer. Very little to no time is spent on marksmanship.

The reason for this is shooting people almost never happens in the typical career of a police officer. That's reality.

What police DO spend an aweful lot of time on is use of force conflict resolution and taking people into custody WITHOUT shooting them.

Personal I prefer police focusing on taking time taking suspects alive and calming down the irate citizen.

Don't believe everything you see on tv.
I can even agree with you...partially.Why?Let's say that the a criminal just shot me or shot a couple of rounds in my direction...and a cops comes along.What should I tell him?What am I supposed to tell him?
1)"Can you please take him alive while he is shooting us?"
2)"Can you please calm him down while he is shoot us?"
3)"Can you please take him in custody while he is trying to blow your head up?"
4)"Since you don't spent much time on marksmanship,its time to practice now.Let's do it!The one who doesn't get killed wins!"

Or should I tell him "KNOCK THE MOTHERF*CKER DOWN WITH A MOZAMBIQUE!"(Shot in the head and in the chest...double tapping) and be 100% sure that he will carry out the order rapidly and effectively.

In such situation...what would you prefer?
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