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Old 05-06-2013, 08:45 PM   #31
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not for sure, but doesn't sound legal to me, unless he's in LE or the military. if not, hmmmmmm.............

maybe someone with more knowledge than me will chime in.
Axxe, the whole "civilian" thing only applies to "civilians". That doesn't mean a legal entity, like a trust, LLC, or corporation can't purchase a machine gun.

How do you think Blackwater buys machine guns for their guys in Iraq?

The NFA isn't about restricting access to machine guns for legal entities, just private citizens (civilians).

That's how it's "legal". Most manufacturers (Colt, FNH, etc) won't sell machine guns to non-governmental entities, but there's no legal restriction preventing them from doing so.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:44 PM   #32
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Axxe, the whole "civilian" thing only applies to "civilians". That doesn't mean a legal entity, like a trust, LLC, or corporation can't purchase a machine gun.

How do you think Blackwater buys machine guns for their guys in Iraq?

The NFA isn't about restricting access to machine guns for legal entities, just private citizens (civilians).

That's how it's "legal". Most manufacturers (Colt, FNH, etc) won't sell machine guns to non-governmental entities, but there's no legal restriction preventing them from doing so.
Hmm, so you're saying if I own a landscaping company, which is an LLC, the company could buy a brand new M-16? Or if I started an NFA trust for myself? That's not how I understand it. Blackwater and the likes are at least govt. sponsored, or whatever, so isn't that how they get their stuff?
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:44 PM   #33
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It doesn't matter...Red Jacket is ridiculous...they don't do anything original, they just throw together or alter existing guns.

Like this ridiculous thing. It's three saigas strapped together...loaded with their regular mags...and they make it spin, although the spinning does nothing.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ZzbbZcjuB1A/TmrReiUZMYI/AAAAAAAAMOg/1UjdWJgPmuw/s1600/shotgun-gatling-gun-06.jpg

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Old 05-06-2013, 09:54 PM   #34
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Axxe, the whole "civilian" thing only applies to "civilians". That doesn't mean a legal entity, like a trust, LLC, or corporation can't purchase a machine gun.

How do you think Blackwater buys machine guns for their guys in Iraq?

The NFA isn't about restricting access to machine guns for legal entities, just private citizens (civilians).

That's how it's "legal". Most manufacturers (Colt, FNH, etc) won't sell machine guns to non-governmental entities, but there's no legal restriction preventing them from doing so.
maybe Benelli has FFL's that allow them to manufacter such items as FA firearms. if so they still can't sell to the general public because of the Hughes Act of 1986. only to the military and LE agencies. and anybody with the proper FFL's can make them, but they still can only sell to LE and the military.

and what does Blackwater have to do with this? they are probably getting their FA weapons in country or from government sponsered agencies.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:08 PM   #35
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Axxe,
How do you think Blackwater buys machine guns for their guys in Iraq?
.
Hasn't been "Blackwater" for a long time.
After that name they went to Xe and now go by Academi.
Mr Prince can't decide on a fitting name for basically "mercenaries".
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:14 AM   #36
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maybe Benelli has FFL's that allow them to manufacter such items as FA firearms. if so they still can't sell to the general public because of the Hughes Act of 1986. only to the military and LE agencies. and anybody with the proper FFL's can make them, but they still can only sell to LE and the military.

and what does Blackwater have to do with this? they are probably getting their FA weapons in country or from government sponsered agencies.
Benelli can sell full auto guns to whomever has the proper paperwork, which would include trusts, LLC's, corporations, and certain other non-governmental entities. Again, whether or not they'll sell it to a specific entity is another matter. Blackwater was an example of a non-governmental entity that purchased machine guns for corporate use, that's all.

Threetango, I don't care what new name they give Blackwater, they're still Blackwater.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:18 AM   #37
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Benelli can sell full auto guns to whomever has the proper paperwork, which would include trusts, LLC's, corporations, and certain other non-governmental entities. Again, whether or not they'll sell it to a specific entity is another matter. Blackwater was an example of a non-governmental entity that purchased machine guns for corporate use, that's all.

Threetango, I don't care what new name they give Blackwater, they're still Blackwater.
please provide some links or references to support this. my brother has his business, (a starter and alternator repair and rebuilding facility) listed as an LLC, so he can own FA firearms? he is also incorporated as well so he can do business with state agencies.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:23 AM   #38
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Hmm, so you're saying if I own a landscaping company, which is an LLC, the company could buy a brand new M-16? Or if I started an NFA trust for myself? That's not how I understand it. Blackwater and the likes are at least govt. sponsored, or whatever, so isn't that how they get their stuff?
clr8ter, that's exactly what I'm saying. You may or may not understand it, but that's how the law is written. Interpretation is obviously up to the courts, but that's how the law was written.

Not to be repetitively redundant, but the manufacturer or dealer may or may not sell to you.

I knew of a company in Austin that would. Last year, years after I first spoke with the owner, I spoke with them again at a Houston gun show. They were very much about dotting the "t's" and crossing the "i's" on the paperwork, but if the paperwork was in order they would do it.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:51 AM   #39
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May an unlicensed person make a machine gun?
Generally, no. However, if documentation can be provided, along with the Application to Make a Machinegun, which establishes that the weapon is being made for distribution to a Federal or State agency, an individual may be permitted to make the machine gun.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o)(2), 27 CFR 479.105(e)]

The key word there was "generally". Obviously there are exceptions and those exceptions are corporations with lawfully purchased and possessed machine guns.

If an unlicensed person can, in some instances, make a machine gun then what would you want to bet that that same person can possess one, with ATF approval of course.

A corporation like Blackwater doesn't get Colt M4 carbines from secret, back-channel government sources. If that were the case the ATF and the courts would almost certainly have something to say about it.

The fact is, if you can get approval from the ATF for the transfer then you can have a machine gun. Contrary to all popular belief, there have been transfers of guns made after 1986 to non-governmental entities owned and operated in the US. The fact that it's not made public and that the ATF may not (probably will not, in most cases) grant approval doesn't stop the gravy train rolling.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:53 AM   #40
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What's most surprising to me is with the number of statutory laws regarding firearms just how much of the law is codified law.

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