Question about an SBS...In CA
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:58 AM   #1
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Default Question about an SBS...In CA

This may sound a little weird coming from a retired cop, but I have no idea where to look, what to look for or what to even ask. So I am starting here.

My wife wants me to build her a "little" fun shotgun. I want to cut an 870 bbl down to 14". Nothing extreme, just make it a little more compact.

If I can do this in the PRK, what do I need to do? I hear a lot about $200 stamps, $300 taxes, waiting lists and backgrounds. What's the straight scoop or where do I need to look?

Thanks
Darin

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Old 12-13-2010, 06:14 AM   #2
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Darin, I believe a shotgun becomes an AOW (any other weapon) when cut below 18". You would have to make sure that is the case in CA. Then find out what the guidelines are for an AOW there. I know that's not much help, but that's all I know about the subject.

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Old 12-13-2010, 06:14 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by DarinCraft View Post
This may sound a little weird coming from a retired cop, but I have no idea where to look, what to look for or what to even ask. So I am starting here.

My wife wants me to build her a "little" fun shotgun. I want to cut an 870 bbl down to 14". Nothing extreme, just make it a little more compact.

If I can do this in the PRK, what do I need to do? I hear a lot about $200 stamps, $300 taxes, waiting lists and backgrounds. What's the straight scoop or where do I need to look?

Thanks
Darin
Pretty sure it's just flat out illegal.
The tax stamps are a federal deal, and the CA DOJ doesn't care whether you have em or not. If it would require a stamp in America, its illegal here.
If you had bought/cut it and tax-stamped it prior to the ban you could have had it registered as an AW, but for new weapons its a plain old no-no as far as I can tell .
This may be uncouth, but here's a link to Calguns' AW flowchart.
CA shotgun AW flowchart
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Old 12-13-2010, 06:20 AM   #4
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Thats kind of what I was thinking, because PC 12020 states that an SBS is illegal and I couldn't find anything that stated a federal AOW/SBS was legal with any type of documentation.

I am going to give DOJ a call, but I wanted to check here to see if someone had done it. All the SBS I dealt with were just flat out 12020 violations and I never ran into a circumstance where someone went through legal channels to posses something NFA.

thanks guys

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"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
Thomas Jefferson
From the great speaker...er uh Barak Obongo

"Liberals make great proctologists. They're the only ones who truly know what the inside of an anus looks like."~me

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Old 12-13-2010, 06:28 AM   #5
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Ah, who am I kidding...DOJ couldn't find their butt with both hands and a roadmap. I guess I'll call BATFE and see if they know whats legal in the Liberal Country of California.

When I first got on this site I was very discouraged when people wrote PRK and Commiefornia, but I am starting to jade

Upon review of that chart a little closer, it asks if the shotgun is properly registered as an SBS with an NFA stamp in possession. So a little more investigating is in need.

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"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
Thomas Jefferson
From the great speaker...er uh Barak Obongo

"Liberals make great proctologists. They're the only ones who truly know what the inside of an anus looks like."~me

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Old 12-13-2010, 06:56 AM   #6
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Ah, who am I kidding...DOJ couldn't find their butt with both hands and a roadmap. I guess I'll call BATFE and see if they know whats legal in the Liberal Country of California.

When I first got on this site I was very discouraged when people wrote PRK and Commiefornia, but I am starting to jade

Upon review of that chart a little closer, it asks if the shotgun is properly registered as an SBS with an NFA stamp in possession. So a little more investigating is in need.
"Registration" refers to the option people were given in (1995?) when CA's AW bans went into place. People who already legally owned weapons that would be illegal under the new law were allowed to register them with the state and keep them, but registration is closed for new weapons (kind of like hi-cap mags )
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:16 AM   #7
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"Registration" refers to the option people were given in (1995?) when CA's AW bans went into place. People who already legally owned weapons that would be illegal under the new law were allowed to register them with the state and keep them, but registration is closed for new weapons (kind of like hi-cap mags )
Yep, but that's what I want to check into. The law does specifically refer to the AW ban in 1995 but that refers to shotguns in violation of 12276.1. It goes on to describe SBS as an AOW. That is what I want to check into is if the 1995 ban on AW includes AOW. I'm not sure obviously, but I don't think AOW is included in on that. I'm gonna look at 12276 and see if that section does...lol, smarta$$.

Edit: Ok, 12020 says you can have one if 12095 says its ok.12095 says sure if you are either using it in a movie or you are a dealer. Still need to look some more but that's what I found so far.
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"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
Thomas Jefferson
From the great speaker...er uh Barak Obongo

"Liberals make great proctologists. They're the only ones who truly know what the inside of an anus looks like."~me

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Old 12-13-2010, 10:32 AM   #8
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When is an SBS not an SBS- when it is an AOW- BUT.........

Start with a pump shotgun, cut the barrel to 14 inches- you just built an SBS.

Start with a bare receiver that has never been built into a firearm. Put a 14" barrel and a shoulder stock on it- once again, you built a SBS.

To do this right, get ANOTHER virgin receiver (you messed up the last two) add a 14 inch barrel, and a pistol grip. Do not add anything that would be a "two handed grip"- like a forward second pistol grip. Congratulations- you built an AOW- Any Other Weapon. Difference? AOW never HAD a stock. And the Fed registration fee is $5.00 for an AOW, vs $200 for a SBS.

Rather than trying to build you own, search for Huglu. They are making some nice briefcase 12 guages. Preceding is the 1934 National Firearms Act- the Federal law administered by the BATFE. As far as CA DOJ MICKEY MOUSE- I have not a clue, you are on your own, I was never here, and this conversation never happened.

While I try to avoid giving legal advice since I am not a lawyer, building either an SBS or an AOW anywhere in the US without doing the paperwork in advance, and paying the taxes up front is possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. 10 yrs, $250,000 fine, and your girlish laughter.

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Old 12-14-2010, 05:33 AM   #9
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Shooter as usual you provide a wealth of information on the subject, thanks. Actually thanks to everyone I got enough information to ask the right questions and Shooter is right as far as the AOW, but since I want a stock that throws the AOW out.

In CA I can build an SBS, but only for use in cinematics or if I am a Class II smith or an FFL who sells to LE, directors or other members who have the legal right to an SBS. They couldn't answer who the other members were.

Thanks again guys

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"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
Thomas Jefferson
From the great speaker...er uh Barak Obongo

"Liberals make great proctologists. They're the only ones who truly know what the inside of an anus looks like."~me
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Old 12-14-2010, 03:22 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
When is an SBS not an SBS- when it is an AOW- BUT.........

Start with a pump shotgun, cut the barrel to 14 inches- you just built an SBS.

Start with a bare receiver that has never been built into a firearm. Put a 14" barrel and a shoulder stock on it- once again, you built a SBS.

To do this right, get ANOTHER virgin receiver (you messed up the last two) add a 14 inch barrel, and a pistol grip. Do not add anything that would be a "two handed grip"- like a forward second pistol grip. Congratulations- you built an AOW- Any Other Weapon. Difference? AOW never HAD a stock. And the Fed registration fee is $5.00 for an AOW, vs $200 for a SBS.

Rather than trying to build you own, search for Huglu. They are making some nice briefcase 12 guages. Preceding is the 1934 National Firearms Act- the Federal law administered by the BATFE. As far as CA DOJ MICKEY MOUSE- I have not a clue, you are on your own, I was never here, and this conversation never happened.

While I try to avoid giving legal advice since I am not a lawyer, building either an SBS or an AOW anywhere in the US without doing the paperwork in advance, and paying the taxes up front is possession of an unregistered NFA weapon. 10 yrs, $250,000 fine, and your girlish laughter.
" Not true " The reciever would have to originally be manufactured as a handgun reciever and originally sold and registered as such. "But", in commy kalifornia, modern cartrige handguns with a bore size over .500 is considered a "Destructive Device" and therefore illegal.

Jim..............
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