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Old 07-07-2014, 09:06 PM   #11
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Disclaimer - None of the following is intended to be a replacement for legal advice from an attorney or the BATFE.

Ok, first of all I'm not an attorney and would strongly suggest contacting BATFE for clarification, if required. In fact, before filling out 4473's, if there were any questions regarding how the form should have been completed they should have been addressed by BATFE prior to completion.

Now, regarding the question about a receiver and whether or not it constitutes a pistol or rifle receiver or "other" (never before assembled into a pistol or rifle).

A pistol receiver has been registered by the manufacturer as a pistol receiver and it would have to be assembled into a completed pistol.

A rifle receiver has been registered by the manufacturer as a rifle receiver and it would have to be assembled into a completed rifle.

A "firearm" or "other" receiver has never been assembled into a firearm and thus cannot be classified as a pistol or rifle receiver. Depending on how the receiver has been assembled, it can be classified as a pistol or rifle receiver.

Once a rifle receiver firearm has been assembled, it cannot legally be assembled into a pistol receiver firearm without registration as a Title II firearm (short barreled rifle or machine gun). The barrel length of a machine gun receiver does not matter, as BATFE considers it a machine gun, versus a pistol or rifle.

Once a pistol receiver has been assembled, it can legally be converted from a pistol to a rifle, but you cannot possess a pistol receiver and a rifle receiver without an appropriate barrel-length (16 inches is the legal minimum for a rifle) matching upper receiver. In other words, BATFE considers having "spare" or "extra" upper receivers with barrel lengths of less than 16 inches to be constructive possession of an unregistered short barreled rifle, which is a violation of associated NFA laws/regulations.

In simple terms, if you have a pistol upper it needs to be mated to a pistol lower. It is not illegal to possess an AR pistol and AR rifle at the same time, but you must have the upper receivers mated to appropriate lower receivers. If you have "spare" upper receivers, then any rifle lower receivers that the upper receivers could be mated to must be registered as short barreled rifles or BATFE considers this constructive possession of an unregistered short barreled rifle. BATFE also considers leaving the rifle and pistol upper/lower receivers in an unmated state, in a gun safe for example, to be constructive possession of an unregistered short barreled rifle.

Basically, if you are in possession of an AR pistol and rifle, ensure that your pistol upper receiver stays attached to your pistol lower receiver and your rifle upper receiver stays attached to your rifle lower receiver and that you are not in possession of any upper receiver with a barrel length of less than 16 inches that does not have a matching pistol lower receiver.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:20 PM   #12
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Addendum:

Just because you see a stripped receiver on GunBroker or GunsAmerica does not mean you can assemble the receiver into an AR pistol.

If the AR receiver in question was ever assembled or registered as a rifle, then BATFE will consider this constructive possession of an unregistered short barreled rifle if you assemble it with an upper receiver with a barrel length of less than 16 inches.

For example, no Colt AR lower receivers can be legally assembled into AR pistols without registration of the lower receiver as a Title II firearm, a short barreled rifle or machine gun.

Regarding assembly of machine guns, the NFA Registry for machine gun receivers was closed in May of 1986 and, barring re-opening of the registry or a BATFE sponsored amnesty period, any assembly of a machine gun receiver without the requisite Special Occupational Tax would be considered possession of an unregistered machine gun, a violation of the NFA laws/regulations.

Last edited by kbd512; 07-07-2014 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympus View Post
I'm asking how other dealers are doing this. The 4473 form and my AD book has a parentheses that gives examples of what to put for type of type of firearm and both show "receiver" as an acceptable type.

I was mainly wondering about why the common advise given is that rifles can only ever be rifles and cannot be made into pistols.
ok, i misunderstood.

dont take advice on filling out the official forms from other dealers. as a non-dealer i have run across many dealers that did not know how to properly fill out one of those forms for a normal rifle purchase. get your info on that ONLY from the batfe.

and again this is a non-lawyer non-batfe employee telling you that a rifle may never be turned into a pistol. a pistol however may be converted into a rifle so long as the barrel is 16"+ and converted back at will. this applies to any pistol not just ar15.

since ar15 lowers are typically not marked "pistol" or "rifle" you tread a very grey area when you tun it into a rifle and have a shorty upper or barrel laying around without a matching pistol or sbr lower... paddling in the grey area is how you end up spending a couple hundred thousand on court fees fines and jail time.

its a LOT cheaper that if you have a pistol ar15 leave the freeking lower on it and buy a dedicated rifle lower.

my free advice if your going to buy a ar15 pistol leave it as a pistol and just buy a second lower to make a rifle.

other thing that can be done is buy a lower that is intended to be a pistol and marked as such.
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Old 07-07-2014, 09:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbd512 View Post
Disclaimer - None of the following is intended to be a replacement for legal advice from an attorney or the BATFE.

Ok, first of all I'm not an attorney and would strongly suggest contacting BATFE for clarification, if required. In fact, before filling out 4473's, if there were any questions regarding how the form should have been completed they should have been addressed by BATFE prior to completion.

Now, regarding the question about a receiver and whether or not it constitutes a pistol or rifle receiver or "other" (never before assembled into a pistol or rifle).

A pistol receiver has been registered by the manufacturer as a pistol receiver and it would have to be assembled into a completed pistol.

A rifle receiver has been registered by the manufacturer as a rifle receiver and it would have to be assembled into a completed rifle.

A "firearm" or "other" receiver has never been assembled into a firearm and thus cannot be classified as a pistol or rifle receiver. Depending on how the receiver has been assembled, it can be classified as a pistol or rifle receiver.

Once a rifle receiver firearm has been assembled, it cannot legally be assembled into a pistol receiver firearm without registration as a Title II firearm (short barreled rifle or machine gun). The barrel length of a machine gun receiver does not matter, as BATFE considers it a machine gun, versus a pistol or rifle.

Once a pistol receiver has been assembled, it can legally be converted from a pistol to a rifle, but you cannot possess a pistol receiver and a rifle receiver without an appropriate barrel-length (16 inches is the legal minimum for a rifle) matching upper receiver. In other words, BATFE considers having "spare" or "extra" upper receivers with barrel lengths of less than 16 inches to be constructive possession of an unregistered short barreled rifle, which is a violation of associated NFA laws/regulations.

In simple terms, if you have a pistol upper it needs to be mated to a pistol lower. It is not illegal to possess an AR pistol and AR rifle at the same time, but you must have the upper receivers mated to appropriate lower receivers. If you have "spare" upper receivers, then any rifle lower receivers that the upper receivers could be mated to must be registered as short barreled rifles or BATFE considers this constructive possession of an unregistered short barreled rifle. BATFE also considers leaving the rifle and pistol upper/lower receivers in an unmated state, in a gun safe for example, to be constructive possession of an unregistered short barreled rifle.

Basically, if you are in possession of an AR pistol and rifle, ensure that your pistol upper receiver stays attached to your pistol lower receiver and your rifle upper receiver stays attached to your rifle lower receiver and that you are not in possession of any upper receiver with a barrel length of less than 16 inches that does not have a matching pistol lower receiver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbd512 View Post
Addendum:

Just because you see a stripped receiver on GunBroker or GunsAmerica does not mean you can assemble the receiver into an AR pistol.

If the AR receiver in question was ever assembled or registered as a rifle, then BATFE will consider this constructive possession of an unregistered short barreled rifle if you assemble it with an upper receiver with a barrel length of less than 16 inches.

For example, no Colt AR lower receivers can be legally assembled into AR pistols without registration of the lower receiver as a Title II firearm, a short barreled rifle or machine gun.

Regarding assembly of machine guns, the NFA Registry for machine gun receivers was closed in May of 1986 and, barring re-opening of the registry or a BATFE sponsored amnesty period, any assembly of a machine gun receiver without the requisite Special Occupational Tax would be considered possession of an unregistered machine gun, a violation of the NFA laws/regulations.

spot on 6 thumbs up said much better than i was hammering at
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:04 PM   #15
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The lowers I sell are not registered as specifically for rifle or pistol.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympus View Post
The lowers I sell are not registered as specifically for rifle or pistol.
And you know this because you have notarized correspondence from the receiver manufacturer indicating that the lower receivers you sell were never assembled as pistols or rifles, right?
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:50 PM   #17
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Can someone purchase a receiver out of state with the intention of creating a pistol?



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Old 07-07-2014, 10:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbd512 View Post
And you know this because you have notarized correspondence from the receiver manufacturer indicating that the lower receivers you sell were never assembled as pistols or rifles, right?

It's not notarized, but yes I've checked with the manufacturer. They are virgin lowers. They were never assembled as anything.


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Old 07-07-2014, 11:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMcCool View Post
Can someone purchase a receiver out of state with the intention of creating a pistol?



No offense and none taken
Perhaps an 80% lower, a jig and a bit of shop time is in order.
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Old 07-07-2014, 11:43 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olympus View Post
It's not notarized, but yes I've checked with the manufacturer. They are virgin lowers. They were never assembled as anything.


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Ok, that's better than assumption. A notarized copy is what you really need, but at least you have documentation from the manufacturer indicating that the receivers were not assembled.

So, based on what you've stated so far you have "firearm" receivers, which are neither "pistol" or "rifle" receivers. You haven't sold any "firearm" receivers to anyone who wasn't at least 21 years of age at the time of purchase, have you?
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