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Old 03-15-2013, 02:47 AM   #11
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Since I'm retired I have a lot of time on my hands and I am a persistent person. I will do everything I can and not let up until I get what I want legally of course.

I have a feeling that because the record is sealed and they can not find out what exactly is in it is the reason for the delays. Getting the record expunged should take care of that.

It's just upsetting that I have bought, paid for and waited for the firearm with no reason at all to think it would be denied and this happens especially since I have bought firearms before and passed the check. Grrrrr.

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Old 03-16-2013, 03:03 AM   #12
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Did a lot of calling and talking with the OSP and a couple lawyers. Without getting into every detail, I found out that my records were not sealed and it had on there what I was arrested for but that was it. It said misdemeanor trespassing but nothing on what the outcome was and that's what the OSP person told me the delay was. They want to know if I served any jail time and if I did, how much. The reason I was able to buy a gun in California was because they do an FBI check and nothing came up. Both of the lawyers I talked to were able to bring my record up and both said that there should be no problem getting my record expunged. They also said they didn't understand why a misdemeanor charge was of any significance especially one that was 40 years old.

Well, I hired one lawyer and he is starting the paperwork now which is good but the bad thing is that it may take 3 to 6 months. Yes, I know that's not a long time to get my record clean but if they(Sheriff) would have told me what the problem was instead of saying they could not get into my file this would have already been taken care of and this thread would have never existed. My main concern is that hopefully nothing will be denied before this is taken care of, I've already waited 6 months for the rifle. I will call the OSP on Monday and ask them if there is any way they can delay their decision until I get it taken care of.

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Old 03-16-2013, 04:25 AM   #13
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I've never heard of a misdemeanor holding anyone up, except domestic violence, which isn't the case. Sounds like political BS and a big PITA for a LAC. Maybe they could direct you towards the nearest black market.

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Old 03-16-2013, 07:10 PM   #14
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Hi Thumb,
Well, Oregon has it's own Brady check type system as you know. It gets it's proceed or no proceed from the FBI NCIS system. If there is incomplete info (no resolution) on your record they put a hold on the transfer. The standard wait time they give is 6 weeks, or 1 1/2 months. Oregon then requests the records from the reporting state, CA in your case, when they get the records they make the determination to proceed or not. I think the 6 week period is to cover their backlog of bad record keeping from other reporting states, and not being able to control how quickly other states respond to their request, I believe these are hard copy records and not just electronic transfers of info, so they take time.
Now for the good news.
1. you were not denied. If you were you could get the NCIS denial number and proceed with straightening this out on the federal level and get a NCIS PIN number for the NCIS system to a file that has the correct info.
2. Oregon OSP will get the records and if all is good you will proceed with your purchase.
3. Oregon will retain your records for 5 years and you will usually get a quick OK to purchase on any future purchases, good idea to tell your FFL before he calls into the OSP to have them check their research files if they don't get a immediate proceed with sale.
4. Once the OSP gets your records and all is well I would get that info to the county Sheriff where you are applying for your CHL. Because the OSP will keep those records on file for 5 years they should be able to confirm the info with the Sheriff. That should take care of that.
5. one other thing you could do is contact the county court where your problem occurred or that had jurisdiction in your case and have them search the dockets for your name and resolution of the case. They may charge you a fee, but get a certified copy for your own records. If your situation was dealt with at the magistrate, local level, and not at the higher court levels (District Court) where felonies are dealt with you won't even show up on their records, have the Court Clerk for that county document that your name doesn't even come up in their District court records (dockets). Get where I am going with this. If in the court records their is no record of you being charged or being found guilty of a felony or other disqualifying item then again that is that. The court that has jurisdiction over felony charges MUST HAVE AND KEEP a record of all felony charges and convictions brought against an individual, period. No court record, no charges = no criminal record = no reason for denial.
That is something you can do on your end. Like I said a certified copy from the Court that had jurisdiction is all you can really get to prove your side. If it was resolved a the local magistrate level since it was that long ago, most likely no records are there, so don't worry about that local, and magistrate courts cannot judge over felonies they must be remanded to higher court, where complete records ARE kept.

Also would recommend that you get a copy of your records from the CA dept of public safety, that will tell you exactly what they report to the FBI NCIS system. Usually easy to do certified request letter and a few $'s. Since you have lawyers on the case they should be able to provide you with copies. Nice to have the before and after picture, the after is after the resolution.

Thmb, What you are victim of is the fact that before about 1980 there were no standards of reporting info to the FBI and every state reported somewhat differently, leading to incomplete and often erroneous information to the FBI, which then later turned into the NCIS computer based system we all know and love today.
I know this is hard to deal with now, but it is a GOOD thing to get this resolved. Just think what would happen if you used a firearm in self defense and your record was run and came back murky.
As far as the people at the OSP go, they are not anti-gun ogres out to get you, just caught in the Oregon system, they are actually some really good folks. If you know you are right and a victim of bad record keeping then my advise to you is to stand the high ground, until you get it resolved the way it should have been in the first place.

I am not a lawyer so I am not giving legal advice, but I have watched Shark, the old TV series. Feel free to disregard the above if you so chose.

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Old 03-16-2013, 07:21 PM   #15
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Thanks for all that info, a lot of that my lawyer explained to me so I think I've got it covered. I will also see if I can get before and after documents also just to have in case.

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Old 03-17-2013, 10:02 AM   #16
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Good luck to you, and I'm glad we could help some.

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Old 03-19-2013, 10:55 PM   #17
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Here's an update and to me just does not sound right. I asked my lawyer to get me a certified copy of my deposition which is what the OSP and Sheriff want to make their decision and he said he would get it for me and mail it out this Friday. My question is if he was able to get it, why couldn't they? Another totally ironic thing that surprised me was that my wife was able to buy a handgun and she also got her CHL today. Now if it is soooooo important that they know how much time I spent in jail for a misdemeanor, you would think that they would have delayed hers to since she lives with me. If you ask me this is all totally absurd given the circumstances.

Well, at least I got the ball rolling on clearing it up, it just amazes me that something like this happens.

Once again, thanks for all the help and info on everything.

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Old 03-20-2013, 05:30 AM   #18
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NCIC does not have spouse info. One could be maried to Charlie Manson and that would not delay the NICS check. NCIC has YOUR criminal records, not tax records, not marriage licenses, not utility bills, etc.

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Old 03-24-2013, 07:57 PM   #19
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You may be right on that but what I understood from the FFL gunshop owner that told me that if I get denied, they can come to my house and take all the guns even if they belong to my wife or even guns that I have legally bought before. Of course I told him "From my dead cold hands they will".

Should be getting the certified copy of the dispostion, not deposition in what the OSP first told me they needed, they keep changing what they want. Anyway, if it says what they want to see and my lawyer says it does, I should get the "Proceed" from the BG check.
Oh, he still submitted the expunge papers to the court so that will make it even better for the future too.

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Old 03-25-2013, 09:36 AM   #20
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You could also check the OFF website. There is a lot of info on Oregon gun laws there. Oregon Firearms Federation

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