My FFL01 & C&R Applications
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Old 08-27-2010, 12:19 PM   #1
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Default My FFL01 & C&R Applications

On 05/04/10 I submitted my BATFE C&R and FFL 01 (internet dealer no retail sales). The BATFE applications arrived via USPS Express Mail on 05/05/10 and the payments were withdrawn from my debit account on 05/07/10. The ATF has 60 days to complete the process + 30 days for me to meet am compliance issues.

On July 28, 2010 I received a voice mail from the NYC investigation division of the ATF in regards to my C&R & FFL 01 applications.

The investigator stated that there were two underlying issues and he suggested that I "withdraw" my applications until those two issues are resolved. Although the ATF actually gives you thirty days to correct any issues before denial of your application.

He contacted my landlord and was told that I can not have any firearms on the premises by one of the employees who runs the management office although she is not the owner of the property.

He stated that I needed confirmation from the NYPD to establish an FFL 01 as the NYPD requires a storefront as well as an inspection.

When I called him back I explained that:

  1. I lived in a privately owned apartment building regulated by a city agency (DHCR) and I possessed a standard lease with no special provisions prohibiting firearms ownership.

  2. Secondly NYPD only inspects FFL 01 retail dealers (store front dealers). Link to NYC Title 38 Regulations [LINK]

At this time he also suggested that I drop the C&R and just focus on the FFL 01 as the FFL 01 would allow me to purchase the same firearms as the C&R. My response was that I was aware of that and although the ATF will allow me to transfer firearms out of my FFL 01 inventory to myself too many of these types of transactions cause a red flag so to avoid that I would utilize my C&R as well as my current NYPD Rifle & Shotgun permit (pistol license still pending approval) as a back up.

I then told him that I would contact my property owner and get back to him. I contacted the owner of the property directly and in all of five minutes he explained that if I could present him with a letter or some other form of proof from the NYPD that I possessed the appropriate permit(s) / licence(s) to possess firearms that he had "no issue"with my possession of said firearms on the premises.

After that I contacted the ATF representative again and explained to him that issue #1 was a non issue. He then instructed me to now get a letter from the property owner stating that I had contacted him and that:
  1. He had no issue with my second amendment right to possess firearms on the premises.

  2. He had no issue with me having an FFL 01 business at my current place of residence.

So on July 29, 2010 I forwarded a letter to the property owner with my credentials but was informed that he wouldn't be back in the office until Tuesday August 03, 2010. After receipt of my information the property owner continued to tell the ATF Inspector that I was not allowed to possess firearms. As you can see the bureaucracy that exists but I will jump through all of the hoops required just to prove that it's possible.

There was also a minor zoning issue but upon sending an email to the Chair of the City Planning Commission and Director of the Department of City Planning. This was the message I sent:

Message: Is it correct that the city zoning bans individuals with a tax payer number from having an internet based business from a residential home where products are sold on the internet but shipped directly from the manufacturer to the purchaser? This was the response which I received:

Dear Mr. Reynolds:

An internet business, as you described in your e-mail message to the Department of City Planning, where orders are placed on-line and products are shipped directly from a manufacturer to a customer, is permitted as a home occupation, provided all other provisions relating to home occupations are complied with, as set forth in the definition of “home occupation’ in Section 12-10 of the New York City Zoning Resolution. The Department of City Planning does not make determinations regarding zoning conformance or compliance. Such determinations are made by the Department f Buildings located at 280 Broadway, New York, 10007. If you would like this information in letter form, please send a check in the amount of $110.00, made payable to the Department of City Planning, to Zoning Division, Department of City Planning, 22 Reade Street, New York, 10007. A letter will be mailed to you within a week of receipt.

Director,
Zoning Division
Department of city Planning.

On 08.20.10 my two investigators arrived and upon showing the ATF Inspector my lease he saw that I was in full compliance as my lease did not state that I was unable to possess firearms. They stayed for two hours and I was told my C&R is looking good (in NYC they drill you for a C&R as well). They stated they just have to verify if the NYPD has any issues with an internet based FFL01. If not I should be good to go.

One of them suggested I join the ATF seeing as how I was aware of many of their regulations it went smooth got a big 50 state book and a little C&R one too.
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:54 PM   #2
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Personally, I'd move out of NY state...

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Old 08-27-2010, 04:27 PM   #3
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One day...

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Old 09-06-2010, 10:17 PM   #4
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First off I would dump the C&R as it will not allow you to buy or sell anything new. Transfers to personal do not cause any red flags. The FFL is for dealers and what causes flags is not doing business. The majority of your acquisitions need to be dispersed to others. As a business they want you to be making money by selling firearms.


This is one going to be really tough. Another issue is not a single firearms manufacturer or distributor is legally going to be able to drop ship firearms from their warehouse to your customers or their FFL's. By law they must ship directly to the FFL that is paying for them. This means UPS and FED EX trucks in and out of your place regularly. You will be conducting a home based business which according to what you have posted is not permissible in your house.

Quote:
Message: Is it correct that the city zoning bans individuals with a tax payer number from having an internet based business from a residential home where products are sold on the internet but shipped directly from the manufacturer to the purchaser? This was the response which I received:

Dear Mr. Reynolds:

An internet business, as you described in your e-mail message to the Department of City Planning, where orders are placed on-line and products are shipped directly from a manufacturer to a customer, is permitted as a home occupation, provided all other provisions relating to home occupations are complied with, as set forth in the definition of “home occupation’ in Section 12-10 of the New York City Zoning Resolution.
This is not a minor issue. ATF will not issue until you have met every requirement of your local government. Your Chief of Police and the building inspectors are going to have to approve this is writing. You will need a city business license for the home occupation. They may require a monitored security system and a steel safe. The Fire Marshal might have to sign off. Mine did. The owner of your property has to consent to your running a firearms business in your home. They may require proof of commercial liability insurance for your business. Most commercial activities are excluded from renters and regular homeowners policies.

Keep in mind you can only transfer firearms at your residence or must ship them to an FFL who can do it on site. They must be present when you make the background check. It's the rules. This is going to cause foot traffic and parking issues that the neighbors will eventually notice if your are to be compliant with being active. As you know the ATF inspectors are very friendly and helpful as most of them love firearms and believe in our rights as well but they are bound by the law that they cannot overlook the written rules or laws of the municipalities that have jurisdiction over you.

I would look to move to a private house with appropriate zoning. It doesn't sound like anyone has issue with possession. It's the business that is the issue.
I wish you luck.
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Old 09-06-2010, 10:40 PM   #5
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They don't issue home occupations in New York you only have to be compliant with zoning since customers don't come here zoning is a non issue ATF already confirmed this with the zoning department. I've already had my interview with the ATF on 08.20.10. I'm just waiting on the mail-man.

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Old 09-06-2010, 10:58 PM   #6
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If you don't mind sharing were you able to find any firearms manufacturers or distributors that will drop ship to your customers FFL's?

I have distributors that will do this on somethings but never with ammo or firearms.

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Old 09-06-2010, 11:26 PM   #7
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I can't rightfully confirm that any will as I have not done it but I'm not prohibited from shipping or receiving firearms myself just no direct transactions face to face from my location so I will not receive transfers for customers. As you stated I can ship to another FFL.

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Old 09-06-2010, 11:30 PM   #8
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I hope you get it soon. Keep us posted.

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Old 09-06-2010, 11:55 PM   #9
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I'm learning as I go so I'm not aware of all of the aspects yet but my ATF investigator did say my paper work is in order. I'll probably be a bit limited based on my location but I'll do anything legal to support the 2A and piss off politicians in New York who are anti 2A.

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Old 11-04-2010, 07:23 PM   #10
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There's a good kit available to you to get passed that and get your questions answered real time... FFLRights.com

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