How to Purchase NFA weapons from Collectors?
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:36 AM   #1
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Default How to Purchase NFA weapons from Collectors?

Hello again,

In the past I purchased machine guns through Class III Dealers. Now that I have an 03 C&R License i may wish to buy directly from another collector.

Since the guns may come from persons I don't know, how can I insure that I actually get what I pay for? What is the customary process for this type of transaction? Particularly when the seller may be several thousand miles from me.

Thanks,

Harvey

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Old 04-13-2010, 01:09 AM   #2
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NFA status overrides any C&R status. You cannot buy antique machineguns w/ a C&R license. The same goes for other NFA items.

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Old 04-13-2010, 01:51 AM   #3
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Well, I have to disagree SOME. Lets take a C&R firearm that is also a full auto- say, a 1928 Thompson SMG, documented to have been made in 1935. And it is registered as an NFA arm with the ATF. You will apply to the BATFE for transfer of the arm, pay them the $200 transfer tax. Supply print card, consent from Chief LEO in your neighborhood. Then wait. Wait some more. In the fullness of time, the BATFE will send you the transfer form, with the $200 stamp attached (no, really, it is a stamp) ONCE you have THAT document in your sweaty little hand, the owner can ship to you, and you can take possession directly without going thru a transfer dealer. And enter the Auto-Ordnance SMG into your bound volume. But you will do all the same things that anyone else does when buying a full auto. There is at least one state that does not permit private ownership of full autos EXCEPT C&R guns. BTW, have you priced a transferrable 1928 Thompson lately?

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Old 04-13-2010, 06:28 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replies. Yes, I understand my C&R is only good to purchase C&R, including C&R machineguns that are 'in the fold'. I'm also familiar with the BATFE process.

What I need to know is when do I pay the seller? At initial purchase, then wait 4 months to see if the gun even shows up or is as-described? Is there some way to hold off on payment until the gun is seen? Maybe an escrow account at a bank?

Yes, I've seen Colt Thompsons ranging from $22K to $44K. I even saw one listed for just under $1M; he can keep that one.

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Old 04-13-2010, 08:23 PM   #5
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C3shooter - I maybe wrong, but don't you still need to go thru a FFL at the sellers location to ship across state lines ?

PS: to the OP, If the seller wants all of the funds up front, you will have to pay him then. It depends what the seller wants.


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Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Well, I have to disagree SOME. Lets take a C&R firearm that is also a full auto- say, a 1928 Thompson SMG, documented to have been made in 1935. And it is registered as an NFA arm with the ATF. You will apply to the BATFE for transfer of the arm, pay them the $200 transfer tax. Supply print card, consent from Chief LEO in your neighborhood. Then wait. Wait some more. In the fullness of time, the BATFE will send you the transfer form, with the $200 stamp attached (no, really, it is a stamp) ONCE you have THAT document in your sweaty little hand, the owner can ship to you, and you can take possession directly without going thru a transfer dealer. And enter the Auto-Ordnance SMG into your bound volume. But you will do all the same things that anyone else does when buying a full auto. There is at least one state that does not permit private ownership of full autos EXCEPT C&R guns. BTW, have you priced a transferrable 1928 Thompson lately?
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:53 AM   #6
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There are several different Federal Firearms Licenses. An 01 FFL is a dealer in firearms. An 02 FFL is Pawnshop licensed to pawn firearms. An 03 FFL is a Collector of Curio & Relic Firearms. That is what I hold, as does the OP. It is not a license to "engage in the business" of buying and selling ANY firearm- but to aid a private citizen in collecting. C&R firearms are those that are 50 yrs old, or older, OR are on a list published by the BATFE (like all Colt Woodsman pistols, regardless of age)

So, being the holder of an 03 C&R FFL, I find a seller with a nice Marlin 39A made in 1950. I'm in VA, he is in AZ. We agree on price, I send him payment, and a signed cc of my FFL. He puts rifle in mail to me. When I get it, I enter it into my records.

So a C&R firearm being shipped to me, even across a state line, IS going to a FFL. Just not going to a dealer.

For more info on a C&R, visit cruffler.com- C&R is the most fun an old man can have for $30 that does not involve the words "dance" and "lap".

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Old 04-14-2010, 01:58 AM   #7
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J- depends on what the seller is looking for. And who the seller is. A dealer with a good reputation, and his FFL at stake- not a big issue. Joe Shmuck that I don't know from Adam, and he is 8 states away, and want $20K of my money? Would have to think about that. You might find a dealer that would act as escrow agent- and I know there ARE escrow services out there. OTOH, if he HAS a papered 03, he has been thru a fairly stiff background check, the ATF already has his prints, and for THAT much money, the Postal Inspectors WOULD go after him for mail fraud. Buying a used car is probably more risky.

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Old 05-03-2010, 01:04 AM   #8
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To the OP, you have to pay for the item and then send in your form 4 and wait for your stamp. You can NOT receive an NFA item directly.
It must go through a class 3 dealer. If its an out of state purchase it will be transferred between the seller and the dealer (on a form 2) you choose to do your transfer.
Either way it stays with the dealer until your stamp comes in to them. They will call you and away you go.

NFA trumps everything

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Old 05-03-2010, 12:52 PM   #9
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To all who posted, thanks. I've made the deal and paperwork is in the plumbing.

I called the NFA Branch of the BATFE and they assured me that a C&R SMG can transfer directly to a C&R Licensee, just like any other weapon listed as a C&R.

Harvey

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Old 05-03-2010, 02:31 PM   #10
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Really? I would want that in writing

good luck

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