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-   -   FFL, ATF and HOA (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f47/ffl-atf-hoa-74956/)

LovinPSDs 10-24-2012 03:38 PM

FFL, ATF and HOA
 
First off... Hi everyone! Been lurking and now my first post. Great site full of great info. Now on to my topic at hand...


So I'm trying to get my ducks in a row to apply for my FFL and I've hit a road block. Here in Houston, Tx we do not have zoning restrictions in my county. From what I've read here the next step is approval by the HOA's in order to show the ATF there are no zoning/restrictions. First off, is this true? Do I need to prove to the ATF that my HOA has approved this since there is no zoning restrictions?

Secondly I did send a letter to my HOA regarding a home business (not mentioning firearms selling at this time) and they said although it's not written they basically don't allow them. But since its not written, if they don't see it they don't enforce it.

Am I stuck here guys? Any suggestions??

Thanks for the help.

Sniper03 10-24-2012 04:35 PM

Yes they do require some documentation of no zoning or zoning and they will not issue an FFL until they are verified. If they were to issue a license to someone at only their word it could be an issue for the individual wanting to do business in the location as well as them issuing a license to a person who was violating the law. That is one question they asked me and I simply went to the County Clerks office and obtained a letter of formal county letterhead stationary to send to them. We have no zoning restrictions here where I am either. I can understand why they require it. Someone might not be honest with them about zoning or simply not be aware of the zoning. So it is perfectly normal for them to do that. As well as security for the weapons at the business.
Good Luck on your FFL!

03

LovinPSDs 10-24-2012 04:58 PM

I understand they need to have proof of the zoning laws, maybe I need to reword this a bit...

I can prove that in Texas there are no zoning restrictions on my property by the county, but do I still need to prove the HOA is ok, or the county good enough?

Bigcountry02 10-24-2012 05:13 PM

I live in an HOA and by our covenants any type of business has to be coordinated with them.

Do a search if you have a pdf of your "DECLARATION OF COVENANTS,
CONDITIONS, RESTRICTIONS, ASSESSMENTS, CHARGES, SERVITUDES, LIENS, RESERVATIONS AND EASEMENTS"
handout for "Business"

You will have to send a letter to HOA; however, this is what in our Section 4.3

All Dwelling Units shall be used, improved and devoted exclusively to residential use by a Single Family No trade or business may be conducted on any Lot or in or from any Dwelling Unit, except that an Owner or other Resident of a Dwelling Unit may conduct a business activity within a Dwelling Unit so long as the existence or operation of the business activity is not apparent or detectable by sight, sound or smell from outside the Dwelling Unit, and is in compliance with all laws, including licensing and zoning laws.

KansasCandR 10-25-2012 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigcountry02
I live in an HOA and by our covenants any type of business has to be coordinated with them.

Do a search if you have a pdf of your "DECLARATION OF COVENANTS,
CONDITIONS, RESTRICTIONS, ASSESSMENTS, CHARGES, SERVITUDES, LIENS, RESERVATIONS AND EASEMENTS" handout for "Business"

You will have to send a letter to HOA; however, this is what in our Section 4.3

All Dwelling Units shall be used, improved and devoted exclusively to residential use by a Single Family No trade or business may be conducted on any Lot or in or from any Dwelling Unit, except that an Owner or other Resident of a Dwelling Unit may conduct a business activity within a Dwelling Unit so long as the existence or operation of the business activity is not apparent or detectable by sight, sound or smell from outside the Dwelling Unit, and is in compliance with all laws, including licensing and zoning laws.

What Bigcountry02 said... Do you have a copy of you Covenants and Restrictions? If you don't have then, you'll need to see if they were filed with your deed. Most of the covenants will relate to rather mundane topics - don't paint the exterior with glow in the dark paint, no on-street parking for more than 24 hours, additions must maintain the look and feel of the neighborhood and also require Architectural Committee approval, fences must be made of wood, be no more than 60" tall and may not be topped with concertina wire, no more than three dogs sleeping under your front porch, etc. If you find that you were planning to do something prohibited, don't do it with the hope that they won't enforce it or that you'll beg for forgiveness. The HOA can hire their own contractors to tear down, fix, replace and you'll be stuck with the bill. Pay it or they'll place a mechanics lean on your property. Remember, the provisions didn't bother you (or the original owner) when the house was built.

You'll probably find a statement about running a business out of your house. There may be specific limitations placed on gun sales. Unfortunately, there is no way to claim discrimination since "gun owner" is not a protected class. Think of the possibilities, though. I'd love the opportunity to see the Solicitor General argue for those rights in front of the Supreme Court! If you're lucky, they will have a simple approval process and they won't gripe about increased traffic, unsightly signs/advertising and "tacticool" customers firing their guns in the air as they speed away, littering the streets with spent brass.

If they do require approval and they say "No", run for HOA office and make friends with the rest of the board.

Olympus 11-07-2012 08:17 PM

Depends on how strict your HOA is. Placing a sign in your front yard advertising may not be the best idea. But I wonder how many women sell Avon and Scentsy and crap like that without getting HOA permission. Technically as much of a business as getting your FFL.

LovinPSDs 11-08-2012 12:03 PM

The thing is, I never once said it was for FFL. I simply said I was interested in pursuing my dream of being self employed and I would like to obtain a short statement from the HOA stating it was ok for me to pursue my desire to be self employed out of my home. This was the reply...

The Board handles in home business in the following manner.
All legal documentation must have and address outside the subdivision. The would be like an assumed name certificate, etc.
The phone number cannot be the home number
No deliveries to and from the house. No clients coming to and from the house.
No advertising using the home number or address.
Basically, if it is not visible, we will not address the violation.

I said.... Stella,

Can you please direct me towards where I can find these restrictions? They don't seem to be clearly spelled out anywhere.

Thank you

She said....
This was an appellate court ruling that goes back many years and the Association has set up their enforcement criteria based on that case. You will not find anything more in writing


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