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Old 04-04-2014, 06:23 PM   #1
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Default FFL 03 (C&R) Renewal - Need Help filling out the form

Hi, I'm filling out the renewal application for my C&R license and would like to get some guidance from you on answering two of the questions:

C. 6.As required b 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B), ATF Form 5330.20 -CERTIFICATION OF COMPLIANCE WITH 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(5)(B) -has been submitted for EACH responsible person in the firearms or ammunitin business or collection activities.

What does this mean? Does this mean I have to file an application for any person who purhases a C&R category firearm from me? I'm confused.

2nd question:
C. 7. If you are a firearms dealer, .....or collector of curios or relics:
a. How many firearms have you boought or acquired withyoru firearms
license over the past 3 years?

I purhcased two. So I'll put down "2" on the form

b. How may firearms have you sold or disposed of with your firearms
licenses over the past 3 years?


I sold one of the firearms that I purchased using my C&R license and other 3 firearms that I purchased through a FFL 01 dealer. Shall I put down "1" or "4" as the nubmer of firearms sold on my renewal application form?

To my understanding, I don't have to be a C&R dealer in order to sell a long gun or C&R handgun. Is this true? Does the C&R (FFL03) govern just the firearms purchased and thereafter, sold with my FFL03 license? Does it also governs those C&R category firearms that were purchased through other FFL 01 dealers?

Thanks for your help.

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Old 04-07-2014, 01:00 PM   #2
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I'm no expert but as for the first question I believe that would just apply to you or anyone else that would be buying C&R items on your license. Its funny that when I try to look up the form or regulations related to it most of what I get is NFA stuff but I think its just a form saying your not restricted from owning firearms.

As for the next question I would say to only put down the number of guns that have been logged in your C&R bound book which would be bought (Receipt) 2 and sold (Disposition) 1. They are just trying to determine if your using your FFL 03 as a dealers license.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Old 04-07-2014, 02:30 PM   #3
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Hi String1946,

Thanks so much for your input. So for Question 1, I'll put down "yes" since I submitted some document cerfifying my citizenship when I initiated applied for the C&R license.

For Question 2, it makes a lot sense that I just put down "2" for purchased and "1" for disposition. As you said, they're tracking how many firearms I bought and sold under my C&R license.

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Old 04-07-2014, 02:38 PM   #4
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Here is the form you need. This is for YOU, not for persons you may sell a gun to.

http://img.docstoccdn.com/thumb/orig/10702021.png

If you already filled it out, check yes. If not, fill it out.

Re: Acquired & Disposed of firearms- AS I UNDERSTAND IT-

First, list as "Acquired" any gun you acquired using your license.
Does not apply to any gun that is NOT a C&R
If you bought a gun, and it IS a C&R, even if you did not use your license, put it in the book anyway.

If you SELL (dispose of) a C&R gun, list it in dispositions.
If you sold a NON- C&R gun, do not list it.
If you sold a C&R that you acquired BEFORE you had a license, enter it as "acquired" (from yourself) and then "disposed"

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Old 04-07-2014, 06:18 PM   #5
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C3 is way more knowledgeable about these kind of things than I am so it would probably be a good idea to heed his advice but I wonder about logging C&R firearms that I didn't buy using my license. Some of them are already in someones FFL 01 book. What about C&R firearms I aquired before I got my license 4 years ago or firearms that have become C&R firearm by reaching the 50 year mark while I have owned them. I know the C&R bound book isn't required to be sent to BATF&E if I let my license expire like a FFL 01 would have to do or at least thats not required yet.

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Gun confiscation will not happen in my lifetime.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." C.S. Lewis

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Old 04-08-2014, 01:33 AM   #6
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Example- I bought a SMLE from a neighbor on 1990. I got my C&R is 1995. The SMLE does not HAVE to be in my bound book.

Comes 2000, I sell the SMLE. It put it in my book as ACQUIRED from me, and OUT as a disposed gun.

In 2000, I buy a 48 yr old Marlin. Not in book. In 2002, it becomes a C&R. Does not have to go in book. 2003, I sell it. IN the book as acquired from self, OUT as disposed of.

And no, when you stop being licensed, you do NOT send your book to the ATF. From ATF FAQs on C&Rs-

Q: Are licensed collectors required to turn in their acquisition/disposition records to ATF if their collector’s license is not renewed or they discontinue their collecting activity?

No. The GCA requires the delivery of required records to the Government within 30 days after a firearm “business” is discontinued. A license as a collector of curios or relics does not authorize any business with respect to firearms. This is in contrast to firearm importers, manufacturers, and dealers who are licensed to engage in a firearms business. Therefore, the records required to be kept by licensed collectors under the law and regulations are not business records and are not required to be turned in to ATF when collectors’ licenses are not renewed or collecting activity under such licenses is discontinued.

[18 U.S.C. 923(g)(4), 27 CFR 478.127]

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Old 04-08-2014, 01:46 AM   #7
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As far as a gun being in an 01's book- It is likely that one gun is one SEVERAL Dealer's books- every time it passes thru a Dealer's hands.

Adam's Guns got it new in 1950. They sold it to Bill. Ten years later, Bill traded it to Charlie's Guns for a new shotgun. They were closing 5 years later, and sold it to Daniel's Sports, who sold it to Edwin. in 1968, Edwin gave it to his nephew, Frank. In 2001, Frank's widow sold it to Giant Gun and Tackle. After sitting on the shelf for a year, I bought it on my C&R license (52 yrs old now) The gun will only be in Giant's book, since the others are pre 1968 GCA. It is also in my book.

I have had the gun since 2002, but this year I find a better one, buy it, and decide to "thin the herd" and sell it. I take it to the gun show, where I bump into Bill, who says "I used to have one just like that. How much do you want for it?"

Now listed as disposed of- to Bill.

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Old 04-08-2014, 02:06 PM   #8
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Ok thanks C3. That all makes sense or as much sence as goverment regulations can make.

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Gun confiscation will not happen in my lifetime.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." C.S. Lewis

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Old 04-09-2014, 02:56 PM   #9
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Hi c3shooter,

Thanks so much for your input. In my situation, do I need to fill out the Form and send it together with my renewal application for my C&R (FFL 03) license?
I don't recall if I ever sent the Form when I initially applied for the C&R license?

Also, in the 2nd field on the Form, it asks "Name of person CERTIFYING to citizenship". Shall I put in my name or someone else's (i.e. a notary public)? What's the difference between "Name under which the application was filed" and "Name of person CERTIFYING to citizenship"? Do I put in my name twice?

Regarding the acquisition and disposition of firearms purchased with my C&R license, here's my track record of transactions:

-I purchased 3 C&R category firearms thru a FFL01 dealer BEFORE I got my C&R license

-I acquired 2 C&R category firearms AFTER I got my C&R license.

Thereafter,

-I sold the 3 C&R firearms (that were acquired thru a FFL01 dealer) AFTER
I got my C&R license.

and I sold 1 C&R firearms (that was acquired with my C&R license) with my C&R license.

QUESTIONS on filling out the Renewal application:

How many firearms have I bought or acquired with my C&R license over the past 3 years? - I think I'll put down "2" since I only purhcaed two firearms AFTER I got my C&R license.

How many firearms have I sold or disposed of with my C&R license over the past 3 years? This is the confusing part. In fact, I sold 4 firearms in total but only one of them was acquired with my C&R license.

Shall I put down "4" or "1" on the form?

Thanks again for your help.

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