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-   -   Class 3 question (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f47/class-3-question-2780/)

tdale4 12-16-2007 01:17 AM

Class 3 question
 
Sorry if this has been answered before, if it has I could not find it.

I simply cannot afford a FA M-4 they are going for over $15K

However I can afford a class 3 FFL. It is my understanding that they cost $500 a year.

I currently have a C&R FFL and I'm in the process of getting my 01 "dealer" FFL.

If I get my class 3 FFL I can buy and sell NFA weapons including FA guns right?

A new FA M-4 costs around $1400, it looks like it will be MUCH cheaper to get my Class 3 then it is to buy a Pre 1986 FA gun.

What happens to my "dealer sample" NFA arms (FA ones) after my class 3 expires?

So what am I missing? it seems logical to get a class 3 if one wants a FA gun. And I would'nt mind making a little extra cash selling to my local PD's either.


Thanks,
Tim

Tilt 12-16-2007 03:48 AM

Not sure on the cost of the license. You have to have a client base willing to buy new FA weapons suce as police departments, sherifes office. You can not just get a "dealers sample" for your own enjoyment. If that was so don't you think everyone would have one. When the license runs out you would have to get rid of any new FA in your possesion. A MAC would be about the cheapest registered FA to get and they run around $4000-$6000 give or take a little.

LEO 12-16-2007 05:43 AM

National Firearms Act Class 3 - Dealer $500


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#c1

(M45) If I discontinue business as an importer, manufacturer, or dealer in NFA firearms must I dispose of my inventory of NFA firearms? [Back]

For more detailed information on this matter, please refer to item 10(f) of the General Information section of ATF P 5300.4, Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide 2005, which has been provided to all FFLs and may also be found on the ATF website (www.atf.gov).

In general, any NFA firearm in inventory may be retained by the taxpayer upon the termination of the NFA business (meaning the person no longer pays the special tax and/or no longer has an FFL to import, manufacture, or deal in firearms) except for a machinegun for which its possession is restricted by the provisions of Title 18, U.S.C. 922(o). A machinegun with this type of restriction on possession is commonly known as a ‘post-1986’ machinegun. As provided by 27 CFR 479.105(f), a ‘post-1986’ machinegun must be disposed of prior to the discontinuance of the business as an importer, manufacturer, or dealer.

However, if the business structure was other than a sole proprietorship, such as, for example, a corporation or partnership, and the corporation or partnership dissolves, then the NFA firearms in inventory must be transferred prior to the dissolution. A corporate officer or director or partner cannot retain the NFA firearms registered to the corporation or partnership without proper transfer.

apk nole 12-22-2007 01:06 AM

From what I have read and heard from people in the know, to get your hands on an automatic, you would need proof, such as a letter from a qualified LEO saying they wanted to try the gun out or they intended to buy.

You can't just have an inventory of post 86 automatics sitting around in some type of inventory, they go from the manufacturer to you to the buyer. This is mainly because of the people who would get the class 3 just to have them for themselves (which I looked into myself).

This is just what I have found out from my brief research, it might not be accurate. The part about needing a letter is usually enforced by the manufacturer/distributer.

Dgunsmith 12-23-2007 03:31 PM

DEMO Letter: POST Machineguns
 
WRONG: Manufacturers/Distrubutors dont enforce this...the NFA Branch of the BATF does......

EVER Single move of NFA firearms is regulated and controlled by the BATF.

You need a letter for demo for each Post NFA Machinegun to submit for approval as a sample. When your license expires or you quit the class 2 business, you must dispose of ALL Post Sample Machineguns.
$ 500 per year to own a Post Sample adds up real fast to play with MG's. Transferreables at least appreciate in value every year !

Just some info and things to consider !:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

apk nole 12-24-2007 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dgunsmith (Post 12925)
WRONG: Manufacturers/Distrubutors dont enforce this...the NFA Branch of the BATF does......

EVER Single move of NFA firearms is regulated and controlled by the BATF.

You need a letter for demo for each Post NFA Machinegun to submit for approval as a sample. When your license expires or you quit the class 2 business, you must dispose of ALL Post Sample Machineguns.
$ 500 per year to own a Post Sample adds up real fast to play with MG's. Transferreables at least appreciate in value every year !

Just some info and things to consider !:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

OK I see.

I knew you needed a letter or some other document, and you can't just have an inventory. You also need a zoned permanent building, you can no longer have a shop in your garage.

My question is, what is required for a manufacturer? Is there a requirement needed commence manufacturing?

Something interesting to look into would be a manufacturers license. You would most likely be able to modify an AR, using M-16 parts redily available, into what would resemble an original M-16. (Or any rifle for that matter).
Problem is, you would most likely have to pay a gun smith to do the work, and the license is more expensive. (Still not as high as a post ban NFA weapon)

tdale4 12-26-2007 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apk nole (Post 12961)
Something interesting to look into would be a manufacturers license. You would most likely be able to modify an AR, using M-16 parts redily available, into what would resemble an original M-16. (Or any rifle for that matter).
Problem is, you would most likely have to pay a gun smith to do the work, and the license is more expensive. (Still not as high as a post ban NFA weapon)


I looked into that as well, Same price as a Calss 3 ($500 a year). Yes you can make FA guns.......but........before you surrender your class 2 license you must dispose of any FA guns you made, however you can keep all other items you made including SBR's and silencers (the ATF can prosecute you for tax evasion if it can be proven that you simply got your class 2 to avoid the $200 tax stamp on NFA stuff), I guess there is no way around the 86 gun law.

Bmac98 12-29-2007 07:50 AM

If u have the money , the bext thing to do is buy a sear,SWD Link,or an F-SSG, if u want to modify a glock. they aren't cheap but they can go on any gun they fit and switch w/o paperwork.

Bmac98 12-29-2007 07:53 AM

U pay a class II mnfr. to modify a S/A to Full. He has to $200fee b4 he starts, if I remember right, then there's the labor and part$.

apk nole 12-29-2007 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdale4 (Post 12997)
I looked into that as well, Same price as a Calss 3 ($500 a year). Yes you can make FA guns.......but........before you surrender your class 2 license you must dispose of any FA guns you made, however you can keep all other items you made including SBR's and silencers (the ATF can prosecute you for tax evasion if it can be proven that you simply got your class 2 to avoid the $200 tax stamp on NFA stuff), I guess there is no way around the 86 gun law.

Well, if you did put in all the effort to get the license, and manufacturer the stuff..... why would you not want to put your name out there to try and make something?

The way I see it, you get the manufacturer license and all you do is buy the m-16 parts needed to make your AR automatic. Because you are a manufacturer, the parts you guy are not NFA parts so they will not be very expensive. At the end of your license, all you have to dispose of are the parts from the M, you keep the AR, so you are not really loosing anything.

It would allow you have an automatic for a fraction of the cost, and you could also adapt your other rifles and pistols.

Keep in mind, all of the weapons you modify could now be sold to LE.


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