Buying a Stripped Lower if I'm under 21 - Page 3
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:44 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by TekGreg View Post
ANY purchase wherein the registered owner is not the actual user/purchaser is legally a "Straw Buy." Anytime two people are involved in a purchase they both risk 5-7 years in sunny Leavenworth, Kansas, Especially not worth it when it involves family.
Sorry that's not true, plus not every state has a "registered" owner for firearms. Here is some motivating training...lol: http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/swf/toon4.html
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:51 PM   #22
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However, Bobby was with his father or other legal guardian, and his father was legally eligible to obtain the handgun as a gift for Bobby, his father would fill out Form 4473, undergo the NICS check, and assume legal responsibility for the transaction and the gun. Bobby’s father could truthfully complete the Form 4473 to indicate that he is the actual purchaser because he would take title to the weapon and then transfer the firearm to Bobby as a gift. From the ATF website:http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/episode-4.html

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Old 09-19-2012, 06:05 PM   #23
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If you stamp a reciever with safe semi auto it doesnt make it a full auto reciever. The word rifle or pistol doesnt make it such. According to the atf assembling a ar15 reciever for the first time into a pistol format makes it a pistol forever more. Same with a rifle. A stripped reciever or frame with a serial number is "other" in the eyes of the batfe at the time of sale.

Assembling a rifle stamped lower into pistol format is probably not wise and can lead to you having to prove a negative or some other fiction. But we arent talking about reality just about what the atf considers goes on a transfer of a reciever.

A reciever regardless of contents is considered other by the atfe unless its a complete working firearm. Put a stock or pistol buffer complete internals its still verbotten to sell to under 21 because it isnt a functional gun with barrel upper reciever and bolt to make it a rifle. Its just a serial numbered reciever neither pistol nor rifle.

Same is true for things like savage model 10 recievers and other rifle recievers shotgun recievers pistol frames all are other and not for sale to under 21. The batfe says they arent a rifle or pistol unless completely constructed. What you intend to do with it and whats stamped on the reciever other than the serial number has nothing to do with its status as unclassified other at time of transfer

If you want to be a test case and take it to the supreme court and help out the cause. I will root for ya

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Old 09-19-2012, 06:27 PM   #24
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It would be interesting to know exactly how many "straw man" cases are prosecuted when it involves this type of purchase, meaning a parent purchasing for an under-age child where the child pays for it and the parent does the paperwork.

Scratch that. I would like to know how many times it becomes an issue at all! My bet would be that it is seldom if ever made a case for the simple fact that when the transaction takes place and the kid pulls the money out of their pocket to pay, the FFL knows that it is not "wrong" versus technically illegal. At worst I could imagine that the FFL might tell the family the technical legalities of the transaction and ask the parent to pay with a credit card or something.

Anybody know any stats on this?

Several years ago my then-14-year-old son won a Savage 110 by scoring 97% on his hunter safety test. I did all of the paperwork and paid the DROS fee, but he technically "paid" for it through his high score. By the letter of the law that would be a straw man purchase but not when put into context of what is right.

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Old 09-19-2012, 08:17 PM   #25
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Not many but it does happen. Depends on the ffl person and how willing they are to put their business at risk for a transfer fee...

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Old 09-19-2012, 08:21 PM   #26
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Not many but it does happen. Depends on the ffl person and how willing they are to put their business at risk for a transfer fee...
Not following why you think it is illegal? It clearly states on the ATF's website that a parent can purchase a firearm and gift it to their child. No different than you buying a Ruger 10/22 for your child. Now state laws are a different story.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:55 PM   #27
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Not following why you think it is illegal? It clearly states on the ATF's website that a parent can purchase a firearm and gift it to their child. No different than you buying a Ruger 10/22 for your child. Now state laws are a different story.
the atf says it is perfectly ok to own a 30 round mgazine or a 1000round belt of ammo. try it in new york illinoise or commifornia. what the atf says and what a state or local federal district attourney that has an axe to grind does are two different things.

im not saying do it or dont do it just putting that thought out there. do with it what you will
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:30 PM   #28
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With the prices of AR coming down (compared to 2 years ago), why not just buy an AR and get it over with?

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Old 09-20-2012, 03:23 AM   #29
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the atf says it is perfectly ok to own a 30 round mgazine or a 1000round belt of ammo. try it in new york illinoise or commifornia. what the atf says and what a state or local federal district attourney that has an axe to grind does are two different things.

im not saying do it or dont do it just putting that thought out there. do with it what you will
Got ya. Definitely have to check the state laws as it has been told to the OP several times. I can't keep up with my own state laws let along the 49 others.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:32 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
With the prices of AR coming down (compared to 2 years ago), why not just buy an AR and get it over with?
As I only have a part time job I would need to save for awhile to buy a complete one. I was also hoping to build a lower just because its something I want to know how to do.
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