Beating the horse some more
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Old 05-11-2011, 09:09 PM   #1
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Default Beating the horse some more

Im going to try and ask two things to keep from starting another thread . 1 how in the hell can the russian kid on youtube get 2 aa12's ? I thought they were for military only ? I want one soo bad . If I wanted to start manufactoring c3 firearms on a very small scale @ first what would need to be done ? You know , make some ''demo only '' weapons and ask a stupidly high price for them . And or retrofit certian guns , Im up to par a lil on the pre-post 86' ban b/s but I have not studied it too much . I am just facinated on the workings and the timing on full auto guns . Is it even legal to make - convert or own say a f/a trigger group but not the whole gun just for study or observation purpose ? I see bushmaster full auto sears on gbroker all the time , i know there is much more to it than just a sear but I even see them for sks and they were never produced in a full auto version . You know most guns were and are punched out by the thousands BUT someone put a lot of time and effort into building the first one . . The guys here @ our small gun shop want to sell c3 also but the man wont sign off on it , can I/we bypass him ? And before any one jumps off @ me IM not a troll or atf or whatever else , I have too much to lose to bypass the system . I have avoided post in this section b/c the last place was so uptight about it , like its somekind of hush hush secret and unless you have a c3 your not good enough to talk about it

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Old 05-11-2011, 09:22 PM   #2
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Whoo! DUDE! PARAGRAPHS!

First, to be engaged in the manufacture of firearms for sale, you must be licensed by the BATFE as a manufacturer. Then there is what is known an an SOT- Special Occupational Tax- and being licensed as a manufacturer of NFA (National Firearms Act) firearms- that's machineguns for the purpose of our discussion.

Can you convert a semi to full? That's called manufacturing a machinegun. Only with the licenses I described above. Without a license, it is called confinement for 10 years in a Federal prison, and a fine of up to $250,000. PS- meet your new roomy- Animal.

Can you possess certain parts that make a gun full auto? Depends on the parts. Can you possess the parts needed to convert, AND an unconverted rifle? No. Called constructive possession.

Full auto weapons not ALREADY registered as being owned by a private citizen in May 1986 CANNOT be transferred to a private citizen. Newly manufactured full autos can only be transferred to a military agency, or a law enforcement agency, or to another Dealer in machineguns.

Which is WHY full autos that are LEGAL are so stinking high. They don't make them anymore. A new M16 for transfer to a police agency- about $975. One that could be legally transferred to a private citizen- $12,000 to $16,000.

As far as the Russian kid on YouTube- I have no clue.

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Old 05-11-2011, 09:36 PM   #3
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How difficult would it be to become a licensed dealer in machine guns? Is it possible to get a license as a dealer using your home as the place of business? I could see making a hobby of buying and selling machine guns if it meant being able to possess the weapons legally.

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Old 05-11-2011, 10:39 PM   #4
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It could be possible, depending on the zoning in the area where you own your home, to apply and get a license to sell weaponry.

I do not know if the standard Class 3 license would allow you to purchase (extremely expensive) full auto weapons. If it did, most of the high end stuff is imported, which makes it that much more expensive.

Even if you could afford the inventory AND you had a license to sell, I believe you could only sell to Military or Law Enforecement, which is a bit of a restricted market to say the very least.

I am NO expert in this area, I can't even say I have played one on the Interwebz because I JUST filed for my Firearm's Trust for a suppressor last week, but I do know that applying for and getting a class 3 license, regardless of intent (sales, manufacture, etc), is a painfully long and expensive operation to undertake.

If you were serious, I would look at getting a firearms lawyer involved. They can help cut some red tape by doing things right the first time, knowing who and what to do, not to mention setting up protection limits for you.

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Old 05-12-2011, 01:50 AM   #5
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your talking about fpsrussia. he is buddies with a class 3 dealer and they take em out to make those vids.


in order for a sot manufacturer to legally make a new experimental firearm for research there has to be a LE or military agency requesting the firearm for study. at the point with the letter of inent the sot submits the paperwork for the nfa permission waits a few weeks for approval then the sot can make the weapon. once made paperwork is submitted for transfer to the le military and another wait for approval. it isnt for the educational purposes of the sot

so you cant just get a sot/manufacture license and crank out FA firearms to play with.

the semi-auto aa12 which can be purchased are considered destructive devices the full autos do not exist as legally transferable samples as none were ever registered pre-86 for civilian ownership. only premay dealer samples.

there are transferable register sears for certain types of guns that when properly licensed via the batfe the owner can convert a semi auto to full auto configuration. there are specific rules concerning host recievers. common ones are drop in auto sear kits for ar15s and hk trigger packs. there are real negatives about them as opposed to registered recievers.

registered sears cannot be replaced if lost or damaged while recievers can be repaired if damaged. it takes more than a bit of skill to convert certain host weapons.

this isnt a secret organization there isnt a mythical right of passage

im currently going through the proccess of being approved for ownership of a colt m16A1 and a suppressor there isnt any secret handshake just extra hoops to jump through and a sht ton of waiting.

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Old 05-12-2011, 02:11 PM   #6
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In other words it would be more cost wise to just fork it out for a f/a gun and be done with it ? I just think it would be cool to
A: come out with the next ak-47
B: Sell f/a guns for a real price
C: repeal the 86 ban ! yea right !
I take it the auto sear kits on g/b for under 100.00 maybe some undercover atf buff doing some side jobs . I
Im just confused on how redmax can take a semi tommy , disgrace it like they did and use it as a ''TACTICAL'' gun for the squad , yea right that gun is sitting is a private gun safe a bet of some big whig . And second how they got away with doing the ma'duec , that was for him and it came as a semi kit . I know its tv but why ? why must they do that to us .
I have many friends - family friends and customers with DHS , retired spec ops , state patrol ect , for some reason they all look to me to blow spit up or to show up with a cool gun , im just running out of options here .
Does anyone know about how much all the taxes are and if they are annual ? I think what is was trying to compare this to is buying IE a atv on your state resale number for tax free and just '' never sell it ''

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Old 05-12-2011, 05:41 PM   #7
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Nfa rules pretty much exclude private ownership of new made machine guns period.

It is cheaper in tthe long run to just buy a transferable mg. The tax is one time 200$ for private ownership. For a ffl license its ongoing atf inspections which will smoke out those using a ffl as a means of private ownership. Part of a ffl means you must use it to buy and then sell. Exception being a c&r license. There is a pretty big yearly fee to keep certain ffls active.

It is legal for a registered reciever owner to buy nfa parts to repair their guns so you will see cheap parts for sale.

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Old 05-24-2011, 10:30 PM   #8
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I have a real good friend / mentor in the marine industry , we have spent countless nights b/sing over b/s . He has no kids to give his guns to to when he passes on and I have made it clear to him that I will be moe than happy to purches everything he has as it will be well taken care of . BUT I have a real good feeling he has some class three stuff , registered or not ? I dont know . If there is a f/a ak or uzi in the mix and they got '' passed down'' what would be the red tape on that ? I have even had the hint that he has HAD a few that were not even registered , not even sure how that was possible unless it was a backyard brew trigger job. Just wondering what I may be getting myself into one day . would it be the same as buying one today just with out the 30k?

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Old 05-24-2011, 10:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileMarine View Post
I have a real good friend / mentor in the marine industry , we have spent countless nights b/sing over b/s . He has no kids to give his guns to to when he passes on and I have made it clear to him that I will be moe than happy to purches everything he has as it will be well taken care of . BUT I have a real good feeling he has some class three stuff , registered or not ? I dont know . If there is a f/a ak or uzi in the mix and they got '' passed down'' what would be the red tape on that ? I have even had the hint that he has HAD a few that were not even registered , not even sure how that was possible unless it was a backyard brew trigger job. Just wondering what I may be getting myself into one day . would it be the same as buying one today just with out the 30k?
as for the unregistered ones, if they exist, destroy the recievers or f/a parts some machine guns the reciever is the part some the sear some the bolt some the trigger group. just depends on what they are.

as for the legal ones, if they exist, they can be inherited as any other property if your home state allows possession and you do the proper paperwork and pay the proper taxes. the estate retains possession until you recieve the stamps. any interstate transfers must go from SOT to SOT.

the easiest way is transfer the legal nfa guns into a trust with you as the beneficiary. you will need to consult a good attourney familiar with nfa items. have your bud get rid of any not so kosher items as they can cause long delays in inheretance. if he is caught with them if they exist the batfe will confiscate all his guns legal or not.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileMarine View Post
BUT I have a real good feeling he has some class three stuff , registered or not ? I dont know . If there is a f/a ak or uzi in the mix and they got '' passed down'' what would be the red tape on that ? I have even had the hint that he has HAD a few that were not even registered , not even sure how that was possible unless it was a backyard brew trigger job. Just wondering what I may be getting myself into one day . would it be the same as buying one today just with out the 30k?
I would rather get pulled over with a 2 pound slab of crack than an unregistered FA firearm, personally, but i am not versed in the regulations, just have heard about some of the peeps who got popped with illegitimate fun guns during other procedings and ended up with more time just for the fun guns. I hear the food is better at the fed's though.
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