ATF ruling--electronic A&D books - Page 2
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:09 PM   #11
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A BATF Inspector told me that they actually prefer electronic records keeping when conducting Inspections. This allows them to do searches and to get printouts of the records.

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Old 04-27-2009, 08:19 PM   #12
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Default Online paranoia

There seems to be a lot of hub-bub over the wireless connectivity and overall security...some things to consider:

A wireless connection is only as secure as the application/site running on it - ie, add your credit card information to a site without SSL security and it is not the CONNECTION that determines the safety of the transfer of information.

Some information is only useful if LINKED - your first name and last name are only useful if they are linked, and then only if they are again linked to your address AND your ssn AND your credit card number.

Who exactly is stealing this data? The information is being sent to a government agency who then SCANS and/or ENTERS INTO A SOFTWARE SYSTEM all the same information, which then lives in a database that is made available to users within the government and contractors, some of whom live hundreds of miles away from the servers and use wireless connections to access data and email.

Anyone who remembers the stone ages (when paper records were locked (maybe?) at night, where paper copies were not always shredded, and when people walked away with folders or threw away documents all the time) would agree that there are disadvantages to any system when human beings come into play.

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Old 04-30-2009, 06:11 PM   #13
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this infomation could be stored on a sercure encripted hard drive

like this

Seagate introduces new BlackArmor secure hard drive, Pipeline DVR drives, new FreeAgents

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Old 05-22-2009, 04:40 PM   #14
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Default Sounds like fear of the unknown...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpttango30 View Post
I personaly don't want anything to do with electronic copy's of a 4473 floating around. It is to easy to get the information off a computer unless you have a system like the pentagon who gets 1 million + attacks everyday.
That's nothing more than technophobia. A low-end computer with a RAID drive for HD crash protection, and NO connection to any other machine and you're good. Better still, use a removable RAID, and pop it into your fireproof safe (or take it home and put it in your home safe) when you close shop. Put a decoy HD into your computer to spoof any crook.

A good encryption program, like PGP, will make it as secure as you'll ever need. Heck, if the government has trouble breaking PGP, your local crook doesn't have a chance!!!

The point is that NO system is foolproof. The guy who uses paper books is just at risk for data theft, though the crook will have to come to the FFL to get them. Same with electronic; keep it on ONE machine, and the crook will have to go to that ONE machine to get the electronic info. Basic safeguards will protect both.
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpttango30 View Post
no not everyone is a black hat. I ment no slight towards you other OS users.

You and I can talk SSL and that but really how many FFL's are in the know about tht kind of security. most banks don't encrypt your data set over the net from an atm machine. If the ATF wants this done then I think they need to set standards for the FFL dealers as far as security and encryption of the FFL data.
This is one thing that irritates the hell outta me about Linux users... they think anything and everything should be THAT FRIGGIN' SECURE and NOTHING ELSE WILL DO.

Let me pose these questions that are actually grounded in REALITY:

1. Do bad guys or hackers REALLY CARE about my A/D data? Do they really care who I sold a gun to, and where they live?

2. Is the ATF *REALLY* qualified to set ANY kind of "standards" for anything computer based?

Here's a couple of clues.

1. Electronic A/D programs simply store where a specific firearm was purchased, and who it was sold to.

2. Electronic 4473s are not stored. They're filled out, then PRINTED for signatures. This is where the sensitive data is stored... on HARD COPY.

3. It's harder to steal a whole computer than it is a "bound book".

4. Backups (both soft AND hard copies) are just good business sense. You can print off as many bound copies of your A/D records as you want, and it's a hell of a lot easier than Xeroxing the traditional bound book.

5. Again, NOBODY CARES about who you got your firearms from or who you sold them to... at least they don't care enough to try and hack WEP security.

Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!
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Old 05-23-2009, 04:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
This is one thing that irritates the hell outta me about Linux users... they think anything and everything should be THAT FRIGGIN' SECURE and NOTHING ELSE WILL DO.

Let me pose these questions that are actually grounded in REALITY:

1. Do bad guys or hackers REALLY CARE about my A/D data? Do they really care who I sold a gun to, and where they live?

2. Is the ATF *REALLY* qualified to set ANY kind of "standards" for anything computer based?
Agreed. Obviously, hackers are after more *lucrative* info that A/D data. The black hats are into identity theft, usually worked on contract for other criminals. IMHO, they'd be after your financial records in an attempt to force you out of the local market than to find out where you get your guns, and where they're going.

I would be against a standard for an electronic A/D system. No standards means that much more work dealing with the multitude of data formats! The ones to set the standard would be IEEE, as they also set the standards for almost everything else electronics-related, including transmission protocols. Those guys are the experts, and IF it were to come to it, ATF would be smart to let IEEE pick the formats.

Again, use PGP to encrypt, and keep backups of all your data, electronic or written!!
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Old 05-23-2009, 05:41 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indy_kid View Post
I would be against a standard for an electronic A/D system. No standards means that much more work dealing with the multitude of data formats! The ones to set the standard would be IEEE, as they also set the standards for almost everything else electronics-related, including transmission protocols. Those guys are the experts, and IF it were to come to it, ATF would be smart to let IEEE pick the formats.

Again, use PGP to encrypt, and keep backups of all your data, electronic or written!!
I'm a software developer. I'm against "standards" because I write my own stuff. "Standards" would mean more rules for me to follow based on someone else's idea of how things should be done.

I print a hardcopy of my A/D data that is securely stored with my 4473s. I print my own 4473s using the new program available on the ATF website. I like the electronic copy of my A/D data because I don't have to flip through pages... I can scan a barcode of any gun I have and it goes right to that record. My A/D data is digitally stored on a USB thumbdrive, and I remotely back it up daily in ZIP format. I keep all shipping slips so if I lose a week's worth of data I can rebuild it with my hard copies. There's no guesswork. When I close shop, the thumbdrive goes with me and is stored in a secured undisclosed location (no, not my glovebox :P ) so even if there *IS* a break-in, and they steal my computer, they get no customer OR vendor info. My POS data is on the same thumbdrive. All I have to do is buy a laptop and install the POS and A/D software I use, and I have my data readily available. I can pick right up and keep on truckin'.

I do use the same computer for my POS as I do my A/D. Whenever I get a new merchant acct, it's the same computer I run credit card transactions. It's connected to the internet (behind TWO hardware firewalls).

I'm just not that worried about the security of my data... even if a hacker got into my computer, they most likely wouldn't know what they were looking for.
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