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Old 01-07-2012, 03:35 AM   #31
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Roger that. Thanks again.

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Old 01-07-2012, 04:54 AM   #32
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Roger that. Thanks again.
Yep your welcome

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Old 01-07-2012, 06:57 AM   #33
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I want to clarify as I was likely misunderstood which was probably my fault. And c3, no offense taken. I don't want to come off like a know it all giving bad info.

Posession is pretty much a state issue. Sale isn't. ATF clearly states no sales of handguns to anyone under 21. If any dealer in any state sells to someone under 21, they are in violation of Federal law. If any state permits sales of handguns to under 21, the state is violating Federal law. As has been explained to me numerous times about virtually every law that has a Federal statute surrounding it, Federal trumps state.

The best advice I can give is to check your state statutes regarding firearm sale laws and posession of handguns.

Private party sales are largely state controlled. For example, here you can sell long guns to anyone out of a dealer's premises so no FLL has to be involved or a 4473 filled out. You see rifles and shotguns at flea markets all the time or advertised in bargain newspapers and this is perfectly legal. Handguns are illegal to sell this way.

Being that states have the right to set their own sale and posession laws with consideration having to be given to Federal statute, there is no standardization from state to state. Same goes with concealed carry laws. It's real confusing to begin with and to answer questions to those in states other than the ones we conduct direct business in, can lead to potential misinformation being given. I never want this to happen, so if anyone got confused or thought they were being misdirected, my apologies. That was not my intent.

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Old 01-07-2012, 07:05 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by wjnfirearms
I want to clarify as I was likely misunderstood which was probably my fault. And c3, no offense taken. I don't want to come off like a know it all giving bad info.

Posession is pretty much a state issue. Sale isn't. ATF clearly states no sales of handguns to anyone under 21. If any dealer in any state sells to someone under 21, they are in violation of Federal law. If any state permits sales of handguns to under 21, the state is violating Federal law. As has been explained to me numerous times about virtually every law that has a Federal statute surrounding it, Federal trumps state.

The best advice I can give is to check your state statutes regarding firearm sale laws and posession of handguns.

Private party sales are largely state controlled. For example, here you can sell long guns to anyone out of a dealer's premises so no FLL has to be involved or a 4473 filled out. You see rifles and shotguns at flea markets all the time or advertised in bargain newspapers and this is perfectly legal. Handguns are illegal to sell this way.

Being that states have the right to set their own sale and posession laws with consideration having to be given to Federal statute, there is no standardization from state to state. Same goes with concealed carry laws. It's real confusing to begin with and to answer questions to those in states other than the ones we conduct direct business in, can lead to potential misinformation being given. I never want this to happen, so if anyone got confused or thought they were being misdirected, my apologies. That was not my intent.
Now im confused because NO ONE can stop me from selling a pistol to my 19 year old cousin in MO. So are you saying im wrong and so is about 3 lawyers in jeff city...atf affiliated lawyers no less? If that is noot what your saying then im sorry if it seems like im taking offense. Im just tryin to clarify

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Old 01-07-2012, 08:10 AM   #35
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TO PURCHASE FROM A LICENSED DEALER YOU MUST BE 21 FOR HANDGUNS AND 18 FOR LONG GUNS.

To purchase from an UNLICENSED RESIDENT IN THE SAME STATE YOU RESIDE, you must be 18 or older.

These are the FEDERAL laws concerning purchase. State laws vary and may supercede federal law.

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Old 01-07-2012, 08:22 AM   #36
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TO PURCHASE FROM A LICENSED DEALER YOU MUST BE 21 FOR HANDGUNS AND 18 FOR LONG GUNS.

To purchase from an UNLICENSED RESIDENT IN THE SAME STATE YOU RESIDE, you must be 18 or older.

These are the FEDERAL laws concerning purchase. State laws vary and may supercede federal law.
Thats the way i was understanding what the atf guys were telling me.

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Old 01-07-2012, 12:32 PM   #37
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Now, I'm the one that's confused. No offense taken from anyone. I was always told that Federal trumps state. So, if that's the case, then what I've always been told was the way it is. Now I hear that it's different in places like Missouri for private party sales of handguns which I was always told is never the case. Not that I doubt anyone, but I'm going to have to delve into this further as, like I said before, I neither want to give bad info anywhere anytime or come off looking like an a$$.

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Old 01-07-2012, 01:30 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjnfirearms
Now, I'm the one that's confused. No offense taken from anyone. I was always told that Federal trumps state. So, if that's the case, then what I've always been told was the way it is. Now I hear that it's different in places like Missouri for private party sales of handguns which I was always told is never the case. Not that I doubt anyone, but I'm going to have to delve into this further as, like I said before, I neither want to give bad info anywhere anytime or come off looking like an a$$.
You may be right,I did a quick search and couldn't find anything definitive on federal laws except on Wikipedia but I'm jot gonna count that. But I have the PDF files for my state from the state website that say handgun ownership is legal for me in case I need to get to the information quick during a traffic stop with a misinformed officer or other persons.
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:55 PM   #39
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While I don't remember finding anything erroneous on Wikipedia, you're smart not taking it as gospel on all things legal. I'm off in a day and intend on making a couple of phone calls to see if I can get anything definitive on what we've been going back and forth about. I have an ATF field office not far and they have been way more than cooperative when I pose any question to them in regard to getting me complete and factual info. I may not like the answers, but at least they are the way things are.

One big issue I've found over time regarding gun related issues are that some things seem way too open to interpretation rather than being black & white. Also, the info that is there doesn't seem always to trickle down to the end users like they are supposed to. For example, here in Pa., we have an active and long standing open carry law. If you ask 100 LEOs if it is legal to carry open here, you'll likely get more than one response including not knowing for sure. It's not necessarily the individual cop's fault that he doesn't know. It's the responsibility of the agencies to provide this kind of info so they can do their job correctly. Another is that we are now a Castle Doctrine state thanks to our current governor. There are blogs and articles telling the high points of this important law, but there should be a "dumbed down" version available from the Commonwealth rather than just posting the law verbatum on their web site. People need to know that this important law exists and how it effects the legal gun owner and CCW holder in an easy to understand format. This goes for everything gun related also. The truthful and correct info should be made readily available for anyone needing it to keep them safe and legal. Sometimes, it's not that easy to go through the process of finding out what is what and even worse, when you do, not everyone can understand legalese, which is how it's often presented. This needs to change.

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Old 01-07-2012, 08:35 PM   #40
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The ATF regulates LICENSED persons- dealers- and in some cases, ANY person. It is important to read the law, and note which of the classes of persons is mentioned.

The more stringent of two laws will apply, except where there is a premption clause to a higher level law (like the Peaceable Journey Act)

However, Federal law does not address sales by a non-licensed person to another resident of their home state if the recipient is not disqualified from possessing a gun (felon, mentally incompetent, etc). The Feds have authority over sales by licensed persons since 18 US Code 922 places limits of what a licensed person can do- like this:

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector
to sell or
deliver -
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the
licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than
eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is
other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or
rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable
cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;


There are other things NO person can do- whether licensed or not- like this:

(2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

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