Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com

Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/)
-   Curio & Relic Discussion (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f37/)
-   -   Why Didnt the US Military Care About "Matching" Guns?? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f37/why-didnt-us-military-care-about-matching-guns-72131/)

Trez 09-09-2012 07:17 PM

Why Didnt the US Military Care About "Matching" Guns??
 
Why is there such a big concern for "matching" foreign military guns, but to find a US mil-surp that is matching is near impossible (If you can even tell)?

It just seems strange to me that the US would care less about their guns than, say, Russia... Even the lowly Mosin has all its parts numbered, but a '03 or a M1 doesnt?? :confused:

Chainfire 09-09-2012 09:29 PM

This is my theory, I am sure others will follow:

Most Mosins are matched only after refurbishment from parts of different makers and over a long time period. So they are not really matching at all. After the refurbishment they were renumbered to match. The Russians and the Soviets were really big into keeping Ivan honest, and responsible for maintaing state owned equipment, and not letting him steal his buddies bolt after he lost it in the snow; an action that could get a summary execution.

In the American army, if you lost a part, you would get a ass-reaming and the part would be replaced, so not as much effort was put into numbering.

c3shooter 09-09-2012 10:24 PM

We attempted to avoid swapping bolts. However, since WW 2, military weapons were subject to a periodic tech inspection that included checking headspace, FP protrusion, etc. Parts would be replaced by the 3rd echelon ordnance teams as needed. Commonality of parts was greater than in the M-N.

Chainfire 09-09-2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c3shooter (Post 934556)
We attempted to avoid swapping bolts. However, since WW 2, military weapons were subject to a periodic tech inspection that included checking headspace, FP protrusion, etc. Parts would be replaced by the 3rd echelon ordnance teams as needed. Commonality of parts was greater than in the M-N.

Agreed about the American guns C3, but the Mosin must have the best interchangability over 70 years and many models of just about any gun. The numbered parts are fully interchangable; the bolt from my 1895 model M-1891 works perfectly in my 1955 T-53, or in a Finn M-1939, and the magazine floor plate and butt-plates are universal, and the bayonets nearly universal. There must be some other reason that it was so important to the Soviets.

Trez 09-10-2012 05:02 PM

Still seems weird to me, about every military besides ours numbered parts....
Arisakas are numbered, Mausers, etc.... (Germans were crazy.. even the screws "match")

deadin 09-10-2012 06:36 PM

Might have to do with just how much confidence we have in interchangable parts. Hand fitting not required. Unlike the Germans and others that even numbered the screws.(Of course they tended to be a little anal in the first place...;))

JonM 09-10-2012 07:22 PM

Our firearms are almost totally plug and play. Even the 1911 you can with milspec guns strip the parts down to the smallest pin off 10 guns shake em in a bag and have 10 working 1911s.

Since 1900ish our manufacture processess have turned out consistant identical parts for just about everything. No need to number parts.

Foreign guns not so much. Some will swap well others wont.

jpattersonnh 09-10-2012 11:35 PM

European rifles matched from day one. If you had an issue of a little gas hitting your brow and the rifle matches, time for a re-barrel. If it does not match, were the lugs out of spec? damaged from bolt thrust? Makes it much easier to figure out what was wrong. The German were very anal, past what was needed. European armorers also had an armorers bolt that was used to test arms that were in the feild to make sure all was correct. All those numbers told the story to an armorer. Was it original, was it repaired before?

deadin 09-11-2012 12:42 AM

Quote:

The German were very anal, past what was needed.
I'll say! If you ever get a chance to examine a German Commission Revolver from the 1870-80 period, they even numbered the charge holes in the cylinder from 1 to 6.:eek:

I wonder what the punishment was if you fired them out of order.....:D


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:25 AM.

Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.