Safety Question
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Curio & Relic Discussion > Safety Question

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2014, 10:07 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
zaitsev44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,034
Liked 205 Times on 137 Posts
Likes Given: 78

Default Safety Question

I was browsing on Armslist and I ran across this 8mm M38 Carcano. I've heard things about them not being safe to fire because the 8mm is too high of a pressure (could I handload lighter charges?). It seems I'm always getting myself into these deals The rifle would need to be shipped, he's asking $150 and is willing to ship. It looks to be part of the Carcanos sent to Egypt postwar, it has the Arabic markings, and is marked "7.9" of the barrel. I'll post the pictures he has on the listing. The bore is quite nice, probably because it hasn't been fired and only dropped once What should I do? Buy or fly? All feedback is appreciated!

File Type: jpg carcano.jpg (30.0 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg carcano2.jpg (20.6 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg cRCno3.jpg (29.7 KB, 53 views)
__________________

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Sir Winston Churchill
Americans love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle. - General George S. Patton Sr.

zaitsev44 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 06-25-2014, 10:42 PM   #2
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 16,758
Liked 8926 Times on 3867 Posts
Likes Given: 1397

Default

Are you likely to experience a catastrophic failure? No- but I WOULD have headspace checked before shooting ANYTHING in it.

I THINK the stock marking translates as "Faleem"- training. Check firing pin protrusion- rumor was that many were converted to "drill" rifles by grinding the firing pin down.

It will be a single shot. Carcano used a clip to hold rounds in the magazine. The 6.5 clips will not fit 8mm rounds- and 8mm clips are more scarce than an honest politician.

__________________

What we have here is... failure- to communicate.

c3shooter is offline  
kfox75 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2014, 11:03 PM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
zaitsev44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,034
Liked 205 Times on 137 Posts
Likes Given: 78

Default

Thanks c3. I don't know if I should take it. It's a neat rifle, but I'm concerned if it'll be safe to fire. I'm not going to fire hundreds of rounds through it, just the occasional range trip. If I can get him to come down on shipping, then I'll probably go for it (He thinks $30 UPS,but it only cost me $21 to ship a Mosin). I'm not sure.

__________________

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. - Sir Winston Churchill
Americans love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle. - General George S. Patton Sr.

zaitsev44 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2014, 12:05 AM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
angryhart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 53
Liked 7 Times on 6 Posts

Default

My 2 cents: it's a neat piece of history but I'd pass. The clips are hard to find as c3 said. You can probably find a 6.5 cal for less money if you really like the carcano as a rifle. And modern made ammo is easy to come by. If you want an 8mm k98's of all types are still pretty reasonable in price (but price gouging is also rampant). If you do choose to get it modern 8mm by remington is powered down so over pressure probably wouldn't be an issue. I'm far from an expert though. It does sound pretty cool though. I think carcanos are underrated. Not the greatest but for out to 100 yards they are reasonable. Others will probably disagree, but that's the fun of forums


Sent from my iPhone using Firearms Talk

__________________
angryhart is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 02:49 AM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Rex in OTZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NW AK
Posts: 845
Liked 79 Times on 55 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

I had a carbine that was reliably accurate enough to hit water filled milk jugs at 309yds with fixed rear sight using Norma ammo off a rest, sold it to a classmate, years later bought another for $100 a 1891, 1917 mfg all matching mida breska with a dark shootable bore. For its rough condition it shoots pretty fair.

__________________

Last edited by Rex in OTZ; 07-04-2014 at 02:57 AM.
Rex in OTZ is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 04:17 AM   #6
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
303tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,676
Liked 1222 Times on 831 Posts
Likes Given: 1241

Default

Nothing Wrong with the Strength of the Carcano`s Action !.............

http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=303-Myth-Busted-Proof-Testing-an-Eaton-Carcano-Rifle

__________________

When all else fails.


Last edited by 303tom; 07-04-2014 at 04:22 AM.
303tom is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 05:02 AM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Rex in OTZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NW AK
Posts: 845
Liked 79 Times on 55 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

I was able to find a little information that makes for a good read.
*Steel in Carcano rifles

Original steel specs for Carcano rifles (Bolt especially) required Poldi special steel from Kladno in upper Bohemia (then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.)...The Name comes from a contraction of "Leopoldina", the wife of Karl Wittgenstein, a German family of Steelmakers and entrepreneurs (with many famous connections, amongst them the 20th century Philosopher, Wittgenstien); the original name of "Leopoldina-Hutte" became with time, simply "Poldi" of Kladno. Poldi was still in business when the new state of Czecho-slovakia was formed,(1919) and supplied steel for the manufacture of both Mauser (Vz24 etc) rifles and ZB26 type LMGs (The British copied the Poldi specs when making their own Bren Gun Steel.). The Germans, after 1939, utilised Poldi steel, as did the Eastern Bloc after 1948.
The Communist Enterprise was "privatised" in 1989, and almost was bankrupted in 1998; it was saved by a German Steelmaker, and now (much re-structured) again supplies special steels to the European market. Poldi steel is still used for quality gun-barrels, and some say it exceeds the famous "Krupp-laufStahl" in quality and performance.

The connections between steel works and arms manufacturers transcended Political and National boundaries...see the links between Vickers-Maxim, Krupp & DWM, between Vickers-Armstrong and Odero-Terni-Orlando in Italy; and so on. technology and supplies were cross-traded, (cartels), and everybody made money by competition for the customers...Countries such as China had as many Krupp guns and warships as they did of Vickers-Armstrong (Same with Turkey)...it just depended on who gave the better "deal" at the moment...

Search Google for many articles under "Poldi Kladno" (avoiding the majority which refer to Hockey and other Sporting teams). Some articles are in Czech, the majority in English.

The Kladno area is just about 20 km west of Prague, and developed in the mid-1800s as a major steel making and industrial area. It is now like Pittsburgh USA, a "Rust-belt" city, struggling to re-invent itself with modern, efficient industries.

__________________
Rex in OTZ is offline  
303tom Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2014, 05:15 AM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Rex in OTZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NW AK
Posts: 845
Liked 79 Times on 55 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Early production bolts removed & shelved and later installed on new production run weapons was interesting,*
There is a old fella here in OTZ who claims that he had accidently dropped a carcano bolt on a concrete floor and it shatterd "early 1960's". was this a pre WWI production bolt that was that brittle? These type story's crop up giving the carcano a very dark reputation,
The Gremans were indeed desprate to convert some to 8mm but must have had a sound reason for doing so
believeing the acition would be able to withstand the pressures generated Did they select only 7.35 carcano's for conversion believeing the metalurgy was sufficent from the time frame of production?
The post WWII surplus sales & modification of Carcano's shipped abroad
is very interesting and the un-documented conversions of Carcano's into non Italian calibers.

Early bolts were replaced because they had the first type of extractor design, which went through a hole in the lug, weakening it. Never heard of any problems with either the barrel or bolt steel with Carcanos,. On the contrary production has been remarkably consistent even during wartime.*

Carcano barrel production gradually converted to Italian-made steel bars. On page 55 of the new book by DiGiorgio and Pettinelli there is a table with the steel production stamp on barrels, by model, date and by arsenal. According to this table the last PO (Poldi) stamps appear on Brescia M91TSs in 1911. Subsequently different steel manufacturer stamps remain in use. "K" is also a stamp indicating a foreign steel (presumably Krupp or maybe again Poldi which is located in Kladno).

Not only older Carcanos have case-hardened parts that can shatter when e.g. falling down on a hard concrete floor. SImilar effects have e.g. been observed with Gewehr 98 receivers at the thin tumbhole area. The explanation is simple: older bolts had a differently shaped cut-out notch at their end, where the safety tube's nub runs in a channel. The metal was extremely thin there, consequently the case-hardening could render the bolt brittle (only) in this very area by "hardening through". I have seen several old bolts with a crack or a part broken away there; it does not impediment function nor safety.

__________________

Last edited by Rex in OTZ; 07-04-2014 at 05:29 AM.
Rex in OTZ is offline  
303tom Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Maverick 88 Safety Question B5Dan General Shotgun Discussion 13 10-11-2012 08:49 AM
Safety Question browningone General Rifle Discussion 1 03-22-2012 08:24 AM
beavertail safety question waxman895 1911 Forum 7 11-25-2010 07:12 PM
Safety Question berny2435 XD Forum 2 06-23-2010 03:37 PM
IDPA Safety Question? Winchester Competition Shooting 1 05-26-2007 11:15 AM