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Old 06-13-2011, 01:00 PM   #21
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Very nice pin-fire double.. Once you have been here for a while, you will learn that C3 is the resident expert in ID'n firearms.. In particular "old" firearms. Might I suggest (not already pointed out) google searching on "pin-fire doubles" . It may at least get you pointed in a direction. Doing research is part of the alure of collecting. Local library might have something also.

Good luck and keep us posted

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Old 06-13-2011, 01:12 PM   #22
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Ahh, more photos. I now think it might be a pinfire that was converted to centerfire.

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Old 06-13-2011, 03:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiwall View Post
Ahh, more photos. I now think it might be a pinfire that was converted to centerfire.
Oops.. It appears you are correct.
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:50 PM   #24
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It looks to be a well made gun and in decent shape. Unfortunately damascus barreled guns unless from a well known maker don't bring much. I'd put it in the 300-400 neighborhood and that's being generous.

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Old 06-13-2011, 06:07 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Hiwall is correct- that is a pinfire shotgun. The action may be a Jones underlever- used by a number of gunmakers in Britain. Your gun COULD have been made in another country, exported to Britain, which required all imported guns to be proof tested.

To the OP, you were not given a range of dates of manufacture- those were the dates during which the government proof house used those markings.

Lighter, larger pictures showing makings on rib, on the side plates, etc would help a lot.

If you are not familiar with pinfires, it is an obsolete priming system, neither rimfire nor centerfire. Each shell has it's own firing pin, gun has none. Predated centerfire priming, which replaced it. Modern shotshells will not fire or fit. They look like this:

Attachment 29579
C3--Look at the third pic down in the above set. A definite set of firing
pins there, and the geometry is all wrong on the hammers for pinfire.

Pinfire to centerfire conversion? I agree it looks like it started life as a pinfire!
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillM View Post
C3--Look at the third pic down in the above set. A definite set of firing
pins there, and the geometry is all wrong on the hammers for pinfire.

Pinfire to centerfire conversion? I agree it looks like it started life as a pinfire!

It did.. I'm sure of it now. Still gonna be a black powder only shooter if the owner wants to take that chance. I'd highly recommend a trip to the gunsmith first.
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:29 PM   #27
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Yep- spoke before I saw the other pics. Conversion. Nicely made gun, back action locks. As said, that type action was used by several makers in Britain and on the continent. I THINK the "Roses" marking in in reference to a patent, but do not have access to Brit patent data, so that is a guess on my part.

A Frenchman, Casmir Lefaucheaux, created the pinfire about 1836, and it was pounced on by a number of well known English gun makers, but by about 1860, it was pretty well replaced by centerfire shotshells. A well made, high $$$ gun would have been a good canidate for conversion. As said, those were pretty much black powder ONLY guns.

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Old 06-13-2011, 11:20 PM   #28
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Default Thank you

Thank you so much, we now know alot more then we ever did. Thank you. Eric

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Old 06-14-2011, 01:09 AM   #29
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I found this link for you to look at.

A converted Purdey pinfire — Part 1… | Dogs and Doubles


Care and preservation:

A Conservator at a museum will clean antique firearms in this manor.

All metal parts are cleaned by applying olive oil and allow the oil to soak and penetrate for one or more days. The metal parts are then brushed with a soft bristled tooth brush to remove any surface contaminates.

The Conservator cleans wooden stocks and parts with a mixture of 50% raw linseed oil and 50% turpentine. A small section of the wood is cleaned at a time by applying the 50/50 mix of linseed oil with a soft lint free cotton cloth. A heat lamp is used to help bring surface contaminates to the surface and to be removed with a dry soft lint free cotton cloth.

No sand paper, no steel wool, no wire brushes, no easy off oven cleaner, no toxic chemicals and god forbid no dish washers.

After cleaning the metal parts have a special CONSERVATION WAX applied to protect the metal from air and moisture.
(oil attracts dirt and dust, dirt and dust absorbs moisture which causes rust)

CONSERVATION WAX | RENAISSANCE WAX POLISH

NOTE: During the American Civil War the triple mix of 1/3 raw linseed oil, 1/3 bees wax and 1/3 turpentine was used as a pre petroleum age cosmoline.

NOTE #2: The same mixture was used by the lady of the house to polish her wooden furniture.
(Pledge wasn't invented yet)

NOTE #3 The same mixture was rubbed on firearms by hunters to give them protection against the elements.
(a raincoat for wood and metal)

And for internal preservation............................

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Old 06-14-2011, 09:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigedp51 View Post
I found this link for you to look at.

A converted Purdey pinfire — Part 1… | Dogs and Doubles


Care and preservation:

A Conservator at a museum will clean antique firearms in this manor.

All metal parts are cleaned by applying olive oil and allow the oil to soak and penetrate for one or more days. The metal parts are then brushed with a soft bristled tooth brush to remove any surface contaminates.

The Conservator cleans wooden stocks and parts with a mixture of 50% raw linseed oil and 50% turpentine. A small section of the wood is cleaned at a time by applying the 50/50 mix of linseed oil with a soft lint free cotton cloth. A heat lamp is used to help bring surface contaminates to the surface and to be removed with a dry soft lint free cotton cloth.

No sand paper, no steel wool, no wire brushes, no easy off oven cleaner, no toxic chemicals and god forbid no dish washers.

After cleaning the metal parts have a special CONSERVATION WAX applied to protect the metal from air and moisture.
(oil attracts dirt and dust, dirt and dust absorbs moisture which causes rust)

CONSERVATION WAX | RENAISSANCE WAX POLISH

NOTE: During the American Civil War the triple mix of 1/3 raw linseed oil, 1/3 bees wax and 1/3 turpentine was used as a pre petroleum age cosmoline.

NOTE #2: The same mixture was used by the lady of the house to polish her wooden furniture.
(Pledge wasn't invented yet)

NOTE #3 The same mixture was rubbed on firearms by hunters to give them protection against the elements.
(a raincoat for wood and metal)

And for internal preservation............................


Kinda repetative... repetative ... repetative there Ed.
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