Looking for info
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:38 PM   #1
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Greetings. I am just now starting to find some information on a pistol that I received many many years ago from my now deceased uncle. It is a "Union I" pistol 6.35 caliber. It measures about 4.5" in length and about 3.5" high. It has several markings which I am hoping will help some people clue me in on more information about it. Here are a few pictures. Any help or if someone could tell me who to go/talk to would be great. I am in Georgia, but travel to SC often as well. TIA!




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Old 02-02-2009, 07:38 PM   #2
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Just from the pics I'd venture a guess its a Spanish made clone of the 1903 Colt ala the "Ruby" style pistol.

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Old 02-02-2009, 08:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcomf View Post
Just from the pics I'd venture a guess its a Spanish made clone of the 1903 Colt ala the "Ruby" style pistol.
What makes you say Spanish? The stamps? I know absolutely nothing about older guns and this is pretty interesting trying to track this thing down. I feel like I need to go to an Antique's Roadshow and find out it is worth $150,000 or $20

Any ideas on who I could take it to?
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Old 02-02-2009, 09:03 PM   #4
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Sorry, here is the pic of the entire pistol and not just the close-ups.

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Old 02-02-2009, 11:35 PM   #5
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Well, the circle with the letter P is the Spanish proof mark for a pistol, since 1929. Revolvers had a similar mark with an R instead of a P. There WAS a Union pistol made in France at St. Etienne. It is a .25 auto- and worth is more than $20 (if in working order and complete) but- sorry, bro- NOT $150 K. About $100. More or less.

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Old 02-02-2009, 11:45 PM   #6
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Well, they are nice pictures of the stamps, but how about a picture of the whole gun. I'd bet it is a european made gun because of the "cal 6.3" marking.

I tried to make out the top of the grips because it looks like a Fabrique Nationale logo at the top. Their logo is an oval shape with the letters FN, one over the other like St L for the Cards, and N Y for the Yanks and Mets.

FN Herstal hired JMB and from what is seen in your pix looks like the back of the Browning designed '03/'08 hammerless. It could be a baby browning I guess. But a full picture of each side of the gun would settle it for sure.

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Old 02-02-2009, 11:49 PM   #7
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Well its a little hard to tell from the pictures. You need pictures of the whole pistol to help ID it. But going from what I could recognize it very much looks like a Spanish made "Ruby" type pistol. There were over 30 manufacturers of these in Spain and some of questionable quality depending on who you talk to. The original "Ruby" pistol was made under contract by one company in Spain for the French military in WW1. They couldn't keep up with demand and subcontracted out to these other companys to make parts. Some of these others then bypassed the original contractor and dealt directly with the French.

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Old 02-02-2009, 11:59 PM   #8
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Alright, here is a breakdown of manufacturers and the models and codes. This is in no way a complete list but just gives you an idea of the number of manufacturers out there. If you notice several of them had 'Union' models. Or I could be completely off on this one. If it is indeed what I say it is then go to the Spanish pistol section over on Gunboards and ask Bob in Saint Louis what you have exactly.


Acha y Cia, Eibar … "Acha"
AH and AR: Acha Hermanos, Eibar or Ermunda ... "Looking Glass", sometimes the trade name was not used *Pistols marked "Looking Glass" seem to be post-WWI made*
Domingo Acha, Eibar ... "Triplex"
Aguirre y Cia, Eibar ... "Basculant", "Le Dragon"
AL: Aldazabal, Leturiondo Y Cia, Eibar * ... "Aldazabal", sometimes the trade name was not used
A. Aldazabal, Eibar * … "A.A.A."
José Aldazabal, Eibar * ... "Imperial"
Armas de Fuego, Guernica ... "Alkartasuna"
AK: Fabrica de Armas Alkartasuna, SA, Guernica ... "Alkar", "Kapitan"
V. Fabrica De Armas, Durango ... "Vencedor"
AE: La Armeria Elgoibaresa, Eligobar ... "Lusitania"
Apaoloza Hermanos, Zumorraga ... "Apaoloza", "Triomphe"
Apaolozo Hermanos, Eibar ... "Paramount"
Arana y Cia, Eibar ... "El Cano"
Ariola Hermanos, Eibar ... "Ariola"
A: Gaspar Arizaga, Eibar ... "Arizaga", "Misdial", "Pinkerton", "Warwinch", sometimes the trade names were not used
AG: Francisco Arizmendi y Goenaga, Eibar ... "Ideal", "Roland", "Brunswig"
Arizmendi y Goenaga, Eibar ... "F.A.", "F.A.G.", "Teuf-Teuf", "Waldman"
AZ: Arizmendi, Zulaica y Cia, Eibar ... "Cebra", some may be over stamped "Beistegui Hermanos"
Francisco Arizmendi, Eibar ... "Arizmendi", "Roland", "Singer", "Victor", "Ydeal"
F. Arizmendi, Eibar ... "Boltun", "Guerre", "Kaba Special"
Armero Espacialitas Reunidos, Eibar ... "Alfa", "Omega"
Hijos de C. Arrizabalaga, Eibar ... "Arrizabalaga", "Campeon", "Especial"
J. Arrizabalaga, Eibar ... "Esmi"
AA: Azanza y Arrizabalaga, Eibar * … "A.A. Reims", "Modelo 1916"
HCA: Hijos de Calixto Arrizabamaga, Eibar ... "Sharpshooter", "Terrible"
EA: Arostegui Eulogio, Eibar ... "Azul", "E.A.", "Oscillant-Azu"
S. Arostegui, Eibar ... "Browreduit"
Aspiri y Cia, Eibar ... "Avion", "Colon"
Astra Unceta y Cia, Guernica ... "Astra", "Cadix", "Camper"
Barrenechea y Gallastegui, Eibar ... "Barrenechea"
Hijos de Jorge Bascaran, Eibar ... "Marke", "Martigny"
MA: Martin Bascaran, Eibar ... "Martian", "Thunder M1919"
MB: Fa de Martin A. Bascaran, Eibar ... "Martian"
BH: Beistegui Hermanos, Eibar ... "Beistegui", "B.H.", "Bulwark", "Libia", "Paramount", "1914 Model Automatic Pistol"
BC: Victor Bernedo y Cia, Eibar ... "B.C.", "Bernedo", sometimes the trade names were not used
VB: Victor Bernado y Cia, Eibar. No trade names used. *Some may have extended barrels*
BA: Fab. de Bersaluzze Arieto-Aurena Y Cia, Eibar ... "Allies"
GB: Gregorio Bolumburo, Eibar ... "Deluxe", "Gloria", "Giralda", "Marina", "Regent", "Regina", "Rex"
G. Bolumburu, Eibar ... "Bolumburo", "Bristol"
Crucelegui Hermanos, Eibar ... "Brong Petit", "Bron-Sport", "C.H.", "Le Brong", "Puppy"
JE: Javier Echaniz, Eibar ... "Defender"
Echave y Arizmendi, Eibar ... "Basque", "Bronco", "E.A.", "Echasa", "Lightning", "Lur-Panzer", "Pathfinder", "Protector", "Renard", "Selecta M1918", "Selecta M1919", "Vite M1913", "Vite M1914", "Vite M1915"
I: Bonifacio Echeverria, Eibar ... "Estrella", "Izarra", "Star", "Vesta"
HE: Hijos de A. Echeverria, Eibar ... "Vesta" (code may also be marked on slide), "Izarro"
EC: Ergulaga y Cia, Eibar ... "Fiel"
Manuel Escodin, Eibar ... "Escodin"
Esperanza y Cia, Guernica ... "Astra"
Esperanza y Unceta, Eibar ... "Astra:, "Campo Giro"
EU: Esperanza y Unceta, Guernica ... "Model 1915" ( or 1916 ), "Astra Patent", "Brunswig Model 1916", "Victory"
Antonio Errasti, Eibar ... "Dreadnought", "Errasti", "Oicet", "Smith Americano"
A. Errasti, Eibar ... "Broncho"
Esprin Hermanos, Eibar ... "Euskaro"
Gabilondo y Cia, Eibar or Elgoibar ... "Danton", "Guisasola", "Mugica", "Perfect", "Plus Extra"
GU: Gabilondo y Urresti, Eibar or Elgoibar ... "Bufalo", "Gabilondos", "Radium", "Ruby", "Ruby Extra", "Tauler"
Fab. de Armas Garantizada, Eibar ... "Apache", "Garantizada", "Rural"
GN: Garate, Anitua y Cia, Eibar ... "Danton", "El Lunar", "Express", "GAC", "Garate", "G.N.", "La Lira", "L'Eclair", "Sprinter", "Tigre", "Triumph"
Garate Hermanos, Eibar or Ermua ... "Cantabria", "Velostark"
Gastanaga, Trocaola y Cia, Eibar ... "T.A.C.", "Trocaola"
IG: Isidrio Gatzanaga, Eibar ... "Destroyer", "Gazantanaga", "Horse Destroyer", "Indian", "Sureté"
IS: Iraola y Salaverria y Cia ... No trade names used
Fab. d'armes de Grande Précision, Eibar ... "Bulwark", "Colonial", "Grande Précision", "Helvece", "Jupiter", "Minerve", "Trust"
Guisasola Hermanos, Eibar ... "G.H.", "Guisasola"
LC: Laplana y Capdevila ... Trade names are unknown
Larranaga y Elartza, Eibar ... "Jubala", "L.E."
LH: Lasangabaster Hermanos, Eibar ... "Douglas"
Lascauren y Olasola, Eibar ... "El Perro"
Manufactura de Armas "Demon", Eibar ... "Demon"
Mendiola, Eibar ... "Vainquer"
Erquiaga Muguruzu y Cia, Eibar ... "Diane", "Fiel"
Urquiaga y Muguruzu, Eibar ... "Marte"
Obrea Hermanos, Eibar ... "Colon", "Iris", "La Industrial", "O.H.", "Orbea", "Perfecto"
Cooperativa Obrera, Eibar ... "Longines"
IO: La Industria Obrea, Eibar ... No trade names used
Ojanguren y Marcaido, Eibar ... "Brow", "O.M."
Ojanguren y Vidosa, Eibar ... "Apache", "Crucero", "Furia", "Militar Y Policia", "Ojanguren", "Puppet", "Salvaje", "Tanque"
Onandia Hermanos, Eibar ... "Onandia"
F. Ormachea, Eibar ... "Bron-Grand", "Duan", "Merke"
Orueta Hermanos, Eibar ... "Oculto", "Tanker"
RH: Retolaza Hermanos, Eibar ... "Brompetier", "Gallus", "Liberty", "Military", "Paramount", "Puppy", "Retolaza M1914", "Stosel", "Titan", "Titanic", "Titanic M1914", "Velo-Brom", "1914 Model Automatic Pistol"
Santiago Salaberrin, Eibar ... "Etna", "Invicta", "Protector", "Tisan", "Unis"
Iraola Salaverria y Cia, Eibar ... "Destructor", "Iraola", "Salaverria"
Casimir Santos, Eibar ... "El Cid", "Vencedor"
MS: Modesto Santos, Eibar … "Action", "M.S."
S.E.A.M., Eibar ... "Praga", "Regent", "Silesia", "Sivispacem", "Waco"
Suinaga y Aramperri, Eibar ... "S&A"
Unceta y Cia, Guernica ... "Brunswig", "Fortuna", "Leston", "Liégeoise", "Museum", "Salso", "Union", "Victoria"
Union Armera Eibaressa, Eibar ... "U.A.E."
Union Fab. de Armas, Eibar ... "Rival M1913"
Tomas de Urizar, Eibar or Barcelona ... "Continental", "Dek-Du", "Express", "Imperial", "La Basque", "Le Secours", "Phoenix", "Premier", "Princeps", "Puma", "Union", "Venus"
UC: Urrejola y Cia, Eibar ... "U.C.", "Urrejola"
ZC: Zulaica y Compania or Cia, Eibar ... "Royal", "Victory", "Vincitor M1914", "Vincitor M1914 No.2", "Zulaica M1914"
Zuloga y Cia, Eibar ... "Volontaire"
Zumorraga y Cia, Eibar ... "Paramount"
CU: unknown
CZ: unknown
RG: unknown
TM: unknown
VD: unknown
Unknown Makers ... "Aurora", "Boix", "Burgham Superior", "Ca-Si", "Cobra", "Mosser", "Muxi", "Oyez", "Peerless", "Rayon", "R.E.", "Reform", "Republic", "Rex", "S.M.", "Tatra", "Velo-Mith", "Velosmith", "Vilar", "Vulcain", "Zwylacka"

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Old 02-03-2009, 08:35 AM   #9
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Top left is a Spanish Ruby.

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Old 02-22-2009, 03:04 AM   #10
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the following is from SPANISH HANDGUNS by Gene Gangarosa Jr.
Table 3: Guide to 6.35mm Spanish Pistols made prior to 1936......
Pistol Name..Union
Slide Serrations..Straight
Safety Device..Eibar type
Ignition Method..Hammer
Other Remarks..Sold by Seytres, a French gun dealer, but made by or for Unceta y Cia

Hope that helps....

The gun I am searching for is a 7.65mm with Curved Serrations, an Eibar safety and the name "MARIE" If any one has info on that, please let me know.

Thanks, Ralph

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