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Old 06-06-2013, 03:52 PM   #11
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Love the oldies. Thanks for posting.

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Old 06-07-2013, 12:28 PM   #12
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Default US Rifle, Model of 1917, Caliber 30

How about a few of the rifle model that helped make Sergeant Alvin York famous on October 8, 1918 along with his Colt Model of 1911 of course.

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Old 06-07-2013, 03:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by string1946 View Post
How about a few of the rifle model that helped make Sergeant Alvin York famous on October 8, 1918 along with his Colt Model of 1911 of course.
Ive always read that York traded in his '17 for a '03??

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This was addressed in American Rifleman in their issue on York. He used a 1903 Springfield. This is backed up by York's son Andrew in the article. While on arrival in France the 82nd Divison was issued 1917's. York however prefered the sights on the '03 and traded for one.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:42 PM   #14
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Default Nobody really knows the truth for sure.

Hey Trez. I'm aware of the American Rifleman article and that may well be true. No matter if your in the "he used a Model 1917" or the "he used a 1903" camp you can find plenty to back your side and shoot down the other. In the movie I know Gary Cooper was shown using a 1903 but he was also shown using a Luger instead of a 1911. Guess thats possible but I doubt it. Which ever rifle he used it served him well and he could have did what he did with either. That was the man and not the tool getting the job done. Bruce Canfield, Author, Collector, and Historian had this to say on the matter. btw thanks for you interest in the post. Thats what makes it fun.

P.S. Maybe when I post pictures of my 1903 I'll start the post like this:

US Rifle, Model of 1903, Caliber 30

How about a few of the rifle model that helped make Sergeant Alvin York famous on October 8, 1918 along with his Colt Model of 1911 of course.



Alvin York – ’03 or M1917? Posted 11-16-12

I have always found it interesting, if not amusing, when a particular topic elicits a lot of controversy on an internet forum discussion site. It is appalling how some of the respondents can really get nasty and call someone with an opposing point of view all sorts of ugly names. None of these people would say anything remotely like that to the other guy’s face which, of course, is nothing but cowardice…but I digress. That is another discussion for another time.

In keeping with the theme of this site, for some reason, the subject of the M1903 Springfield rifle seems to garner more than its share of such controversy. One classic example is the subject of “low numbered” ’03 receivers and the wisdom of shooting such guns. That subject instantly results in numerous posts, often vociferous, taking one side or the other. Those who favor shooting such guns are sometimes characterized as fools who are taking their lives in their hands by such wanton action. Those who do not choose to risk firing such guns are often, sometimes subtly and sometimes not, accused of being less than manly or some sort of “nervous Nellie.”

Another contentious ’03-related topic that pops up from time to time is the question as to what type of rifle Alvin York used during his amazing and heroic exploits of World War I. Some guys are absolutely convinced that he used a ’03 Springfield and other are equally sure he utilized a M1917 “U.S. Enfield.” Both sides come up with various reasons or conjecture that purportedly support their respective positions. Before I chime in with my opinion, let’s look at some of the more common arguments made:

Contention - One of Alvin York’s sons stated that his father used an’03 during the war.

Response - This means nothing. Does anyone know that York’s son knew anything about guns and could tell the difference between a ’03 and a M1917? More importantly, children can be wrong about what their parents had or did. A good example (which I think I related here sometime ago) was an incident a number of years ago at a large gun show. A guy (probably in his 30s at the time) came up to my table and asked if I’d like the see the gun his father carried ashore on D-Day. I said sure, and he produced a Universal M1 carbine. Despite the fact that this was a commercial production weapon made in the 1980s, he was still absolutely convinced this was the gun his father had with him on Omaha Beach in 1944. I’ve also heard kids claim that their grandfather used a .30-30 rifle in WWI or their dad had a Mattel-made M16 in Vietnam. So much for the veracity of offspring! Also, at least two of York’s sons did not even agree on the type of rifle their father used.

Contention – The 1940 movie “Sgt. York” (starring Gary Cooper) pictured the intrepid Tennessean armed with a M1903 rifle (actually it was an Bannernam ersatz ’03). Since York was a “technical advisor” on the film, this had to be the correct weapon he used or he would have said so and insisted that the proper rifle be depicted.

Response - If York was so insistent on historical accuracy regarding firearms in the film, then why was Gary Cooper carrying a Luger instead of the M1911 .45 pistol that York actually used? Supposedly, it was because the M1911 could not readily function with blanks, but that still doesn’t excuse its inclusion if A.Y. was so concerned with technical accuracy regarding the weapons used in the movie. Also, why was Gary Cooper clean-shaven when York had a prominent mustache? If someone looks to Hollywood to support their historical assertions, then any of their conclusions are, to say the least, suspect.

Contention – A statue depicts York with an ’03 rifle.

Response – So what? I’ve seen works of art supposedly depicting a Civil War soldier armed with a .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield rifle. Most paintings, and many statues, either depict the subject with an incorrect gun or one that is barely recognizable. An artist is rarely concerned with such details and concentrates on the person that is the subject of the painting or statue. Few give a rip about the type of gun shown. In any event, the statute in question was commissioned after York’s death so he hardly had an opportunity to confirm or refute that the proper rifle was depicted.

Contention – York was a noted marksman and would have preferred an ’03 because it was more accurate and he could have picked up one from the battlefield.

Response – Where to start? First, the ’03 is certainly an accurate rifle. However, for combat use, I don’t think it is any better, indeed probably not as good, as a M1917, primarily because of the design of the latter’s rear sight (the receiver-mounted peep aperture close to the eye).

Secondly, York’s unit was definitely armed with M1917 rifles. There is no doubt about this. He may have seen an ’03 somewhere, but his issue weapon (and the one for which he was accountable) was a M1917. Remember, he was a Corporal at the time of his exploits and would almost certainly have been reluctant to throw away a perfectly good rifle (which he had trained with and was intimately familiar) for a discarded ’03 that may or may not have functioned properly. Sure, he could have picked up and used an abandoned ’03, but “could have” and “did” are entirely different matters. He “could have” used an abandoned French Lebel, British SMLE or German Mauser but I wouldn’t bet on it.

OK, by now I suppose you can guess where I come down on the subject. Suffice it to say that all reasonable evidence points to the fact that York used a M1917 rifle for the reasons cited above. Is it remotely possible that he could have used an ’03 instead? Sure, almost anything is possible. However, in the absence of proof, we have to go with what is more logical and more likely. In this context, I think the M1917 wins out hands down over the ’03 theory. I know this posting probably won’t change anyone’s mind one way or the other and the controversy will go on.

By the way, if York did use an ’03, I wonder if it was a “low number” or “high number”!

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Old 06-10-2013, 03:26 PM   #15
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Default United States Rifle, Caliber .30-06, Model 1903

Here are some pictures of my 1903. I think I posted pictures of it in another thread sometime back. This one isn't stock and I have no idea who made the changes. It has target front and rear sights and the trigger trips the sear at 2.5 lbs. I have never shot it but hope to fix that real soon.

img_2453.jpg   img_2454.jpg   img_2442.jpg   img_2444.jpg   img_2446.jpg  

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Old 06-11-2013, 02:30 PM   #16
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Default Remington Model 81

All the American made C&Rs don't have to be milsurp. I have loved the look of these guns for a long time but had never seen one other than pictures. One of the reproduction signs on my ammo locker has a model 8 on it and I liked the look. I finally got one a few years ago in 300 Savage and it shoots well. Another one of JMB's masterpieces. Texas Ranger Frank Hamer had a model 8 in 35 Remington when he went looking for Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow and found it did a pretty good job of punching holes in the Ford Coupe as well as the couple themselves.

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Old 06-12-2013, 01:05 PM   #17
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Default Hi Standard Supermatic S-101

The finish on this one leaves a lot to be desired probably because it was stored in a pistol rug for too long but mechanical its just fine. I haven't shot it much and for a long time but its more accurate than I am. From what I can find out the government made one order of 3000 to 3200 US marked pistols which was delivered the latter part of 1957. The barrel is ported and has a rib along the bottom for installing barrel weights which I don't have.

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Gun confiscation will not happen in my lifetime.

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Old 06-13-2013, 02:40 PM   #18
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Default M1 Carbine

Nothing real special about this one but they are very handy guns. This one is an Underwood dated 1/42. I also included a old picture of me in Thailand a long time ago with a Thai guard and his trusty carbine.

img_2944.jpg   img_2946.jpg   img_2421.jpg   img_2424.jpg   img_2425.jpg  

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Gun confiscation will not happen in my lifetime.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." C.S. Lewis


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Old 06-14-2013, 03:36 PM   #19
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Default Another Carbine

Here is a M1A1 that someone put together with a reproduction stock and an Underwood carbine. Even though its not a real M1A1 its as close to the real thing as I will probably ever own and it cost about 25% of what a real one would have cost and its a ton of fun to shoot. I would not feel under armed with one if these. If you can't solve your problem with a M1 carbine you don't need a bigger gun, you need a SWAT team.

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Old 06-17-2013, 12:48 PM   #20
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Default 1897 Winchester

How about a few of a 1897 Winchester pump 12 GA shotgun.

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