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Old 05-19-2008, 08:22 PM   #11
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I'll throw my opinion into the ring and mention Armadillo Blue Wonder gun cleaner and steel wool as mentioned before. It works outstandingly to remove surface rust and hasn't affected the bluing a bit when I use it.

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Old 06-14-2008, 02:52 AM   #12
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It's a bit hard to find but I've always use copper wool. It'll remove rust but is too soft to scratch steel.

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Old 06-14-2008, 09:30 PM   #13
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It's a bit hard to find but I've always use copper wool. It'll remove rust but is too soft to scratch steel.
Waht about a copper chore boy? Would that be to harsh?
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Old 06-15-2008, 06:13 AM   #14
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Waht about a copper chore boy? Would that be to harsh?
I don't know if the strands are pure copper, copper plated steel, or some blend. I've always used pure industrial copper wool. It's used in the plastics industry to clean tool sets (molds) without scratching. It's probably used elsewhere, too.
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Old 09-12-2008, 07:14 PM   #15
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One important note do not, and I repeat do not, if the gun is a military P08 use factory modern 9mm rounds. They will fire but the pistol was designed in a gentler age and modern ammunition at some point may fracture the toggel linkage, with spectacular results.... Ure toward safety and use down loaded reloads..Good Luck
This is a completely fallacious statement. I have fired hundreds upon hundreds of modern 9mm rounds through a variety of Luger PO-8s; most of them through a 1939 PO-8. If there's a serious malfunction with modern pistol ammunition in a Luger it's overwhelmingly likely that it's due to the poor condition of the weapon, not the ammo.

The original German Army loading for the 9mm pistol round was a 124 gr bullet loaded at 1.169 to 1.173 (round nose) at approximately 1076 fps.

Standard Winchester "white box" 9mm rounds with the 115 gr FMJ bullet is fine for this type of handgun. This ammo has a mv of 1190 fps. Sellier & Bellot 124 gr FMJ rounds are also a great choice with a fps of 1181 for the mv. Brass cased Blazer is nearly on point with a 124 gr 9mm FMJ with a mv of 1090 fps. Avoid +P or +P+ ammo at all costs. Also stay away from JHPs as they tend to get hung up.

Firing an older firearm should only be done after it is thoroughly checked by someone competent, preferrably a gunsmith. The condition of the springs and action is key in a smooth running Luger. Of course, this is all a moot point since the original poster said he did not have a permit for this firearm. Possession in NJ of an unregistered/unlicensed handgun is a felony. I'd suggest he start with applying for a license.

I'm not even going to touch the WD-40/steel wool for cleaning topic. If you are serious go to Jan Still's Luger Forum and research for yourself. If the handgun is in decent shape, rebluing will just about kill any historical value it may have.
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Old 09-13-2008, 05:59 AM   #16
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This is a completely fallacious statement. I have fired hundreds upon hundreds of modern 9mm rounds through a variety of Luger PO-8s; most of them through a 1939 PO-8. If there's a serious malfunction with modern pistol ammunition in a Luger it's overwhelmingly likely that it's due to the poor condition of the weapon, not the ammo.

The original German Army loading for the 9mm pistol round was a 124 gr bullet loaded at 1.169 to 1.173 (round nose) at approximately 1076 fps.

Standard Winchester "white box" 9mm rounds with the 115 gr FMJ bullet is fine for this type of handgun. This ammo has a mv of 1190 fps. Sellier & Bellot 124 gr FMJ rounds are also a great choice with a fps of 1181 for the mv. Brass cased Blazer is nearly on point with a 124 gr 9mm FMJ with a mv of 1090 fps. Avoid +P or +P+ ammo at all costs. Also stay away from JHPs as they tend to get hung up.

Firing an older firearm should only be done after it is thoroughly checked by someone competent, preferrably a gunsmith. The condition of the springs and action is key in a smooth running Luger. Of course, this is all a moot point since the original poster said he did not have a permit for this firearm. Possession in NJ of an unregistered/unlicensed handgun is a felony. I'd suggest he start with applying for a license.

I'm not even going to touch the WD-40/steel wool for cleaning topic. If you are serious go to Jan Still's Luger Forum and research for yourself. If the handgun is in decent shape, rebluing will just about kill any historical value it may have.

My observations are from over 30 years as a collector and shooter of the P08, I have handled Lugers from early Imperial to last years of production, I can assure you I am not a one book expert, you are obviously entrenched in your
view and it's your face if you loose the toggle....enjoy
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Old 09-13-2008, 06:18 AM   #17
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I own and actively shoot several Lugers...from mix-n-match shooters to a pristine 1939 42 production and a 1916 DWM artillery piece. I've never had an issue with the properly chosen modern ammo that mimics original PO-8 ammo specs. I've actively researched the issue and have found that modern ammo with the proper sized and weight bullet and measured with medium burning pistol powder with the right muzzle velocity measured by feet pounds per square inch is no different than the original specs for period military specs. Brass is the same diameter, bullets are sized the same, ammo specs are same re: burning speed and muzzle velocity is near identical. Countless other collectors and shooters advocate this stance. Obviously, with my pre-smokeless and older firearms I merely collect and would not shoot. What's missing?

Not needlessly denigrating your POV, but what do you use when shooting your Lugers? Check Jan Still's Luger Forum as well as a host of other well informed sources of information. I obviously would not jeopardize my safety, well being and a $3k handgun on specious ammo on a whim and unjustified and ignorant opinions. Same with my 1916 1911A1...I use 45ACP ammo with the same bullet and similar curves of powder burning and mv. Similar period piece, similar physics involved. The luger PO-8 is a robust and well-crafted weapon when in good condition.

You say the pistol is designed for a "gentler age" and therefore I extract that modern ammo is unsuitable for it. What am I missing that you are aware of? I welcome your response Boris.

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Old 09-13-2008, 05:24 PM   #18
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At one time in the UK (when I lived there) I had a substanial collection of military and civilian Luger pistols, which ended of course when handguns where banned a few years ago and the collection was broke up...I love the pistol and have shot and collected them for years.

My point to the chap in question assuming that he had a Luger left to him in the family, and assuming that it was in good order and he wanted to shoot it, my advice was to handload for the pistol. My view is that current powders in manufactured commercial ammunition develope higher pressures that orginal 9mm parabellum ammunition. They may shoot flawlessly over a long period of time, but you are on the outer limits to their tolerance . It would be better to handload. Military 9 mm most certainly should never be used. In the past I have examined at least 7 Lugers where there was toggel separation, 6 where shot with commercial ammunition, the 7th. was with British military 2Z and a very nice M1917 lost it's toggel, the owner lost part of his right ear.....

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Old 09-13-2008, 06:21 PM   #19
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I am with Beeman on this Boris.american ammo is loaded light and a lot of american shooting lugers ad malfunctions becuse there was not enough pressure to activat the joint right.sure that brit ammo was not subgun.I had several lugers in the 194 period and shot one modified to shot 38 acp.3 rds only in mag.whats the difference between 30 mauser and 7.63 x 25?question has nothing to do with luger.only mauser/tokerev and ppsh41.

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Old 09-13-2008, 06:22 PM   #20
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If someone was going to handload ammunition for the PO-8, it's safe to say that they'd be using modern smokeless powder, that being the same powder that'd be in the specific types of ammunition I mentioned (ie Winchester, S&B, Blazer, etc). They'd be reloading to the same specs or very close to the ammuntion the Luger was designed to fire otherwise the ammunition wouldn't cycle the action properly.

A slow/medium to medium burning handgun powder with a 124 gr FMJ projectile is what was used 60 years ago and what is used today in the ammunition I mentioned (aside from the 115 gr ammunition I mentioned). How would you handload differently?

The pressure curves and burn rate for the loads I mentioned that are available commercially are well within the safe zone for a Luger. If you use a weak handload, you'll never get the handgun to cycle properly. If you use a hot load, you'll put undue stress on the action.

With the right ammunition (specifically those I mentioned) and a well-maintained Luger, I would not hesitate a moment to pull the trigger.

As an FYI, the Brit military ammo you mentioned, the 2Z, might be the Mk IIz, which was developed for submachine guns and approximates the specs for the +P rounds, if not more...definitely a no-no. As I mentioned, +P or +P+ 9mm will lead to problems in an older handgun.

I don't doubt your first hand experiences. I do trust my Speer and Hornady manuals, the numerous books (Walter's "The Luger Book" is an essential for any collector) and articles I have read on the subjects, the overwhelming opinion of Luger experts and the reload vs commercial/surplus ammo experience and first hand shooting experience I have.

I agree that reloading is the best, but for a total novice that's a great deal of information to digest and a very expensive proposition for starting up a reloading operation, especially for the occasional shooter.

So what would your preferred load be for the Luger?

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