Do Military Guns with Matching Numbers Really Match?
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Curio & Relic Discussion > Do Military Guns with Matching Numbers Really Match?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-08-2012, 05:52 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Trez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 3-P
Posts: 3,684
Liked 748 Times on 495 Posts
Likes Given: 824

Default Do Military Guns with Matching Numbers Really Match?

I was wondering If military guns with matching numbers really match? Are all the numbers stamped on the gun when its made or are they stamped when they import them? What about when they get re-arsenaled?
Ive noticed on my "matching" Mosin all the main parts match, but theres a couple small unnumbered parts that have a different arsenal marks on them...
My "matching" Russkie SKS from 1953 has a bolt with spring loaded firing pin, but I read they quit doing that in early 1951.. It also has the most re-arsenal marks ive even seen on a gun, but all the parts really still match?
I do have a matching Type 99, but it has a super tight bore and the Mum, so I dont think it ever had a chance to make it back to the armory...

__________________
Quote:
...... I suffer from a very rare genetic defect that causes me to be sympathetic toward the International cause. There is no cure.
Trez is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 03-08-2012, 05:57 PM   #2
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Reno,Texas
Posts: 10,211
Liked 6573 Times on 3638 Posts
Likes Given: 27929

Default

IIRC, 7.62x54r.net had an article that said that they would label some of the new parts of a Mosin with the old numbers when they were being re-arsenaled.

I think it really depends on the gun, the country it was made/used in, and the history of that particular firearm.

__________________
texaswoodworker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 10:50 PM   #3
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 16,904
Liked 9148 Times on 3950 Posts
Likes Given: 1426

Default

Yes and no. Bear in mind that military firearms would be sent back to the arsenal for tech inspection, and rebuild when worn. If a bolt is missing, or fails inspection, another would be fitted. The serial number would be lined thru or ground off, and the serial number of the rifle it was fitted to would be engraved with an electric pencil- knowsn as a "forced match".

No, not the original bolt- but yes, it does "match"- or fit- that rifle.

Also bear in mind that the parts of many US rifles bear a drawing number that has no relation to the serial number. There were about TEN different hammer designs for the M- Garand- design changed over the service life of the rifle- each different design has a different drawing number.

__________________

What we have here is... failure- to communicate.

c3shooter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 06:23 PM   #4
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
TheOldMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Warner Robins,Georgia
Posts: 1,012
Liked 35 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Yes and no. Bear in mind that military firearms would be sent back to the arsenal for tech inspection, and rebuild when worn. If a bolt is missing, or fails inspection, another would be fitted. The serial number would be lined thru or ground off, and the serial number of the rifle it was fitted to would be engraved with an electric pencil- knowsn as a "forced match".

No, not the original bolt- but yes, it does "match"- or fit- that rifle.

Also bear in mind that the parts of many US rifles bear a drawing number that has no relation to the serial number. There were about TEN different hammer designs for the M- Garand- design changed over the service life of the rifle- each different design has a different drawing number.
Well done as usual c3... US weapons like the M1 Garand are a perfect example of a firearm that was never an all matching rifle. Parts were manufactured and rifles assembled with parts serialized as to year range manufactured. Pretty much unheard of to find M1's close to being what would be considered a "matching" rifle...
__________________

NRA Life Member, Georgia Gun Owners
www.RCGunworksllc.com

" Guns have only two enemies: RUST & POLITICIANS"

"Free men do not ask permission to bear arms"

The U.S. Constitution: The 2nd Amendment is in place in case the Politicians ignore the others"

TheOldMan is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 10:26 PM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jpattersonnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South central,NH
Posts: 5,035
Liked 728 Times on 505 Posts
Likes Given: 757

Default

Some rifles such as the German K98k, GEW98, Swedish M96 and M38, French Mas '36 and '49 were all matching. Some are still that way, others have been re-arsenaled, but are correct.

__________________

Freedom is not free. The best of us always leave too soon.

jpattersonnh is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2012, 11:53 PM   #6
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rochester WI,Rochester WI
Posts: 17,746
Liked 5797 Times on 3027 Posts
Likes Given: 397

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOldMan View Post
Well done as usual c3... US weapons like the M1 Garand are a perfect example of a firearm that was never an all matching rifle. Parts were manufactured and rifles assembled with parts serialized as to year range manufactured. Pretty much unheard of to find M1's close to being what would be considered a "matching" rifle...
ill second that. m1 carbines are another example. if you find an all matching carbine its not original someone at some point did it themselves. with carbines there arent any real ones with all parts from the same maker. all of them were issued and rebuilt at unit level at times. when the war ended they were all re-arsenaled and either sold to civilians or sold to foreign nations or kept in inventory.

only the re-arsenaled or ones not substantially fit for further service made it into civilian hands. all of them had mismatched parts. carbines then served in korea and none of those saw cvilian hands until parts were refitted and the guns reworked to some extent.

it makes for a good fun project to make a parts matching carbine but there is no such thing as an authentic as issued one. just dont pay a premium for one.

when buying a carbine there is different levels of value for specific receiver and barrel makers but thats as far as it goes in the carbine world.
__________________

"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

The problem with being stupid is you cannot simply decide to stop doing dumb things...


Last edited by JonM; 03-09-2012 at 11:55 PM.
JonM is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 07:39 PM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Trez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 3-P
Posts: 3,684
Liked 748 Times on 495 Posts
Likes Given: 824

Default

Why does it seem all the guns from other country's have all the parts numbered but US guns dont? The only # on my '03 is on the receiver.. I mean even the Russian guns do, I wouldnt think the Russian's would care more about there guns being "matching" than the US... Heck, even the smallest parts on my Mosin have some sorta arsenal mark, but US ones dont?

__________________
Quote:
...... I suffer from a very rare genetic defect that causes me to be sympathetic toward the International cause. There is no cure.
Trez is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 09:14 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jpattersonnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South central,NH
Posts: 5,035
Liked 728 Times on 505 Posts
Likes Given: 757

Default

It is a different train of thought. The U.S. has always been behind the curve when it came to interchangable parts. Guess it is a left over from that thought.
I hear the rain coming down now!!

__________________

Freedom is not free. The best of us always leave too soon.

jpattersonnh is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2012, 10:22 PM   #9
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rochester WI,Rochester WI
Posts: 17,746
Liked 5797 Times on 3027 Posts
Likes Given: 397

Default

costs time and money to stamp different numbers on every part. not very cost/time effective for mass production. plus it serves no real practical purpose in the grand scheme of warfare.

__________________

"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

The problem with being stupid is you cannot simply decide to stop doing dumb things...

JonM is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Gold match VS Super Match 2 Will1 1911 Forum 3 01-10-2012 01:59 PM
R.A.R. Guns N413 MATCH Rifle RARGuns Sponsor Display 6 01-16-2011 01:41 PM
matching a rifle to my orphan scope JonM General Rifle Discussion 10 11-15-2010 02:46 AM
Broomhandle Mauser C96 - numbers matching - hd pics Sooie Curio & Relic Discussion 10 11-08-2010 03:40 AM
Military demands details on soldiers' private guns Bigcountry02 Politics, Religion and Controversy 12 03-22-2009 11:17 PM