Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com

Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/)
-   Curio & Relic Discussion (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f37/)
-   -   Do Military Guns with Matching Numbers Really Match? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f37/do-military-guns-matching-numbers-really-match-59760/)

Trez 03-08-2012 05:52 PM

Do Military Guns with Matching Numbers Really Match?
 
I was wondering If military guns with matching numbers really match? Are all the numbers stamped on the gun when its made or are they stamped when they import them? What about when they get re-arsenaled?
Ive noticed on my "matching" Mosin all the main parts match, but theres a couple small unnumbered parts that have a different arsenal marks on them...
My "matching" Russkie SKS from 1953 has a bolt with spring loaded firing pin, but I read they quit doing that in early 1951.. It also has the most re-arsenal marks ive even seen on a gun, but all the parts really still match?
I do have a matching Type 99, but it has a super tight bore and the Mum, so I dont think it ever had a chance to make it back to the armory... ;):p

texaswoodworker 03-08-2012 05:57 PM

IIRC, 7.62x54r.net had an article that said that they would label some of the new parts of a Mosin with the old numbers when they were being re-arsenaled.

I think it really depends on the gun, the country it was made/used in, and the history of that particular firearm.

c3shooter 03-08-2012 10:50 PM

Yes and no. Bear in mind that military firearms would be sent back to the arsenal for tech inspection, and rebuild when worn. If a bolt is missing, or fails inspection, another would be fitted. The serial number would be lined thru or ground off, and the serial number of the rifle it was fitted to would be engraved with an electric pencil- knowsn as a "forced match".

No, not the original bolt- but yes, it does "match"- or fit- that rifle.

Also bear in mind that the parts of many US rifles bear a drawing number that has no relation to the serial number. There were about TEN different hammer designs for the M- Garand- design changed over the service life of the rifle- each different design has a different drawing number.

TheOldMan 03-09-2012 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c3shooter (Post 733818)
Yes and no. Bear in mind that military firearms would be sent back to the arsenal for tech inspection, and rebuild when worn. If a bolt is missing, or fails inspection, another would be fitted. The serial number would be lined thru or ground off, and the serial number of the rifle it was fitted to would be engraved with an electric pencil- knowsn as a "forced match".

No, not the original bolt- but yes, it does "match"- or fit- that rifle.

Also bear in mind that the parts of many US rifles bear a drawing number that has no relation to the serial number. There were about TEN different hammer designs for the M- Garand- design changed over the service life of the rifle- each different design has a different drawing number.

Well done as usual c3... US weapons like the M1 Garand are a perfect example of a firearm that was never an all matching rifle. Parts were manufactured and rifles assembled with parts serialized as to year range manufactured. Pretty much unheard of to find M1's close to being what would be considered a "matching" rifle...

jpattersonnh 03-09-2012 10:26 PM

Some rifles such as the German K98k, GEW98, Swedish M96 and M38, French Mas '36 and '49 were all matching. Some are still that way, others have been re-arsenaled, but are correct.

JonM 03-09-2012 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOldMan (Post 734743)
Well done as usual c3... US weapons like the M1 Garand are a perfect example of a firearm that was never an all matching rifle. Parts were manufactured and rifles assembled with parts serialized as to year range manufactured. Pretty much unheard of to find M1's close to being what would be considered a "matching" rifle...

ill second that. m1 carbines are another example. if you find an all matching carbine its not original :) someone at some point did it themselves. with carbines there arent any real ones with all parts from the same maker. all of them were issued and rebuilt at unit level at times. when the war ended they were all re-arsenaled and either sold to civilians or sold to foreign nations or kept in inventory.

only the re-arsenaled or ones not substantially fit for further service made it into civilian hands. all of them had mismatched parts. carbines then served in korea and none of those saw cvilian hands until parts were refitted and the guns reworked to some extent.

it makes for a good fun project to make a parts matching carbine but there is no such thing as an authentic as issued one. just dont pay a premium for one.

when buying a carbine there is different levels of value for specific receiver and barrel makers but thats as far as it goes in the carbine world.

Trez 03-26-2012 07:39 PM

Why does it seem all the guns from other country's have all the parts numbered but US guns dont? The only # on my '03 is on the receiver.. I mean even the Russian guns do, I wouldnt think the Russian's would care more about there guns being "matching" than the US... Heck, even the smallest parts on my Mosin have some sorta arsenal mark, but US ones dont? :confused:

jpattersonnh 03-26-2012 09:14 PM

It is a different train of thought. The U.S. has always been behind the curve when it came to interchangable parts. Guess it is a left over from that thought.
I hear the rain coming down now!!

JonM 03-26-2012 10:22 PM

costs time and money to stamp different numbers on every part. not very cost/time effective for mass production. plus it serves no real practical purpose in the grand scheme of warfare.


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:43 PM.

Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.