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Old 07-26-2012, 03:56 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trez View Post
It says Dave Emary a Ballistician for Hornady
The testing was done by gun writer/military weapon historian Mike Venturino and the gentleman from Hornady. The article was published in Guns magazine.
They used original rifles, original optics, and WWII surplus ammo. The intent was to see which WWII service sniper rifle was the most accurate.
The rifles accuracy varied at different ranges (100 yards out to 1,000 yards) - no one rifle was the best at ALL ranges. But, on average, the most accurate OVERALL was the Mosin Nagant 91/30.
Did any of you nay-sayers even read the article?
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:53 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricepaddydaddy
The testing was done by gun writer/military weapon historian Mike Venturino and the gentleman from Hornady. The article was published in Guns magazine.
They used original rifles, original optics, and WWII surplus ammo. The intent was to see which WWII service sniper rifle was the most accurate.
The rifles accuracy varied at different ranges (100 yards out to 1,000 yards) - no one rifle was the best at ALL ranges. But, on average, the most accurate OVERALL was the Mosin Nagant 91/30.
Did any of you nay-sayers even read the article?
I'm not a nay sayer, I read the article because I subscribe to guns magazine. I showed that mag to two people at work, they both cancelled their g&a subs and subscribed to guns! I like it better than other mags, and they have stated several times that they take pride in not taking bribes, guns, etc. from any manufacturer to sway their opinions on a product.
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:49 PM   #33
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Hey I just realized theres no Arisakas! Wonder how a Type 97 or a Type 99 sniper woulda placed? Cant say whats ones the best if you dont test all of them!!

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Old 07-26-2012, 07:02 PM   #34
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I'm not a nay sayer, I read the article because I subscribe to guns magazine. I showed that mag to two people at work, they both cancelled their g&a subs and subscribed to guns! I like it better than other mags, and they have stated several times that they take pride in not taking bribes, guns, etc. from any manufacturer to sway their opinions on a product.
I've been a subscriber for years, and their sister publication too - American Handgunner.
I let my subscription to G&A lapse because all it is now is AR's and plastic pistols.
I'm old school, keepin' it real with wood and steel.
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:59 AM   #35
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According to the test the 91/30 was the best..
They were using period ammo as well.

Group sizes:
M91/30 PU 3.5X- 300 yd: 4.75"; 500 yd: 10"; 1,000yd: 16"
K98 ZF41 1.5X- 300yd: 6"; 400yd: 20" (At 400 yds the recticle post completely covered the target)
K98 ZF4 4X- 300yd: 5"; 500yd: 12"
M1903 Leatherwood 3X- 300yd: 2.5"; 500yd: 5"
M1903A4 2.5X- 300yd: 9.5"; 500yd: 16"
Enfield MK.VII No.4 (T) 3.5X- 300yd: 8"; 400yd: 16"

Hmmm... Seems to mt the M1903 with the Leatherwood 3X scope was doing pretty good; Wonder why they didnt shoot it at longer ranges??
Interesting results. This debate has gone on for 60 years, and will go on until the end of time.

It has often been reported that the most highly regarded sniper rifle/scope combo of WW2 was the Enfield No4Mk1(T) and No32 scope. The Brits were the only military that did not develop a match round for sniping. The standard British .303 MkVII and MkVIII 174gr and 175gr ammo had very high BCs and performed better at longer range than they did at shorter range. The bullets also had an aluminum or wood nose (inside the jacket) which caused them to yaw and tumble upon impact.

The No4Mk1(T) was a highly specialized target/sniper rifle. They were made by Holland & Holland on previously accuracy tested No4Mk1s.

The No32 scope had range marked turrets that were simple to use, and accurate. It was also very durable.

The first time I fired my No4Mk1(T) at the range, I sighted it in at 100 yards and proceeded to make first round center hits at 200, 300, 400 500 and 600 yards.

Lots of great sniper rifles were fielded in WW2 and many were still in use into the '60s, '70s and '80s.
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Old 08-03-2012, 09:00 PM   #36
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They used WWII surplus ammo?? I am not sure where they got true German heavy ball or any other WWII ammo that was not compromised in some fashion. I have 3 rounds of 1935 German heavy ball, it will never be fired. One can't be.

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Old 08-03-2012, 09:44 PM   #37
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There used to be a lot of the old military .303 ammo here in Australia for a long time but like the DoDo it's as scarce as hen's teeth now with anybody that has some either storing it or firing it off or pulling the FMJ and replacing it with a commercial 150gn or 180 gn hunting projectile for pig/goat/deer/camel/donkey/buffalo or feral horses.
A lot of .303's got converted to .303/25,.303/.243, .303/.270 and .303/22 for Kangaroo shooting or pig hunting at which these wildcats were very successful but because the actions couldn't take too much hotrodding they couldn't be loaded right up for their true potential,regards

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Old 08-05-2012, 10:09 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by billt View Post
One must remember that in all of this talk about snipers and their weapons, it is the man that makes the sniper, more so than the rifle he is using, or being, "forced to use". All of these makes of bolt weapons have had high scoring men pulling the trigger on them at one time or another throughout their service history.
I was wondering when someone would point that out... Anyone can take up a brush and slap paint on a wall. It takes a true "artist" to make a masterpiece.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:04 PM   #39
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... The Russian Mosin-Nagant 91/30 PU???

I woulda put my money on the Springfield '03...

http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/GUNS/GUNS0211/
I would agree with the assessment that the 91/30 was the best overall. I dont agree with their reason why.

The 1903 and enfield in any configuration are very accurate rifles but the scopes being used were just aweful, couple that with no real training and you have designated marksmen not snipers. The allies did not really deploy or train people to be snipers until vietnam. They simple said "this guy is a decent shot" and gave that soldier a rifle with an optic.

The soviets created the first working optic that was rugged enough for combat had a working bullet drop compensator and they actively trained and had manuals to teach individuals fieldcraft and sniping. They trained snipers in ballistics wind drift mirage all that stuff which the other armed forces did not. So by default the 91/30 wins
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:14 PM   #40
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I would agree with the assessment that the 91/30 was the best overall. I dont agree with their reason why.

The 1903 and enfield in any configuration are very accurate rifles but the scopes being used were just aweful, couple that with no real training and you have designated marksmen not snipers. The allies did not really deploy or train people to be snipers until vietnam. They simple said "this guy is a decent shot" and gave that soldier a rifle with an optic.

The soviets created the first working optic that was rugged enough for combat had a working bullet drop compensator and they actively trained and had manuals to teach individuals fieldcraft and sniping. They trained snipers in ballistics wind drift mirage all that stuff which the other armed forces did not. So by default the 91/30 wins
The British Mk32 Scope is an excellent piece of gear, and the turret ranging is spot on and repeatable.
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