[JonM]

the 1903 was the best bolt gun of the war by far but it was almost completely crippled by the simply atrocious m84 scope

[Trez]

So I take that It was the optics that made the '03 bad, not the gun...

[texaswoodworker]

Originally Posted by Trez

So I take that It was the optics that made the '03 bad, not the gun...

That's the way I understand it.

[303tom]

The one that Sgt. York used, the 1917, aka "United States Rifle, cal .30, Model of 1917"

[Dillinger]

Best WWII Sniper Rifle is...

This is easy if you are a student of the platform.

The Winchester Model 70 (Pre-'64) was FIRST PRODUCED in 1936.

The Second World War OFFICIALLY began on the 1st of September, 1939.

The Winchester Model 70, Pre-1964, action is THE BEST action that was available at the time of the war.

Whether someone used it or not is irrelevant. The technology was AVAILABLE at the time of the war.

Carlos Hathcock used a bull barrel, off the shelf, Model 70 in .30-06 in Vietnam (arguably a much tougher "hunting" environment) and he was credited with 93 CONFIRMED kills.

His mentor....

Charles "Chuck" Mawhinney, recorded 103 confirmed kills with a very similar (practically the same) rifle.

Simo had the benefit of working in -20 to -40 degree CELSIUS weather when the Soviet Union made the mistake of trying to invade Finland.

Yes, he has the most in service kills!
Yes, he has the most kills in the shortest period of service time!
Yes, he was a bad ass of epic proportion!

But he was facing an enemy, on HIS TURF, that was constantly advancing and was highlighted by the fact that every breath was exposed to anyone that was looking.

Shooting fish in a barrel (the guy recorded an average of FIVE KILLS a day, which is no accident) is an easy description.

But as effective as he was, he wasn't as instrumental as other snipers have been in other wars.

One shot can make a hell of a difference and snipers of the US have routinely made that difference time and again in all sorts of conflicts. (Did you know that Mark Bowden, Black Hawk Down, credits a DELTA sniper with killing Pablo Escobar?)

The Winchester Model 70, in a long or short action, was the finest action being produced AT THAT TIME. With a half assed barrel, I would still put it up against the "well made" Mosin or other offering from the Eastern Blok at the time and feel very comfortable.

JD

[davemccarthy707]

Originally Posted by Dillinger

This is easy if you are a student of the platform.

The Winchester Model 70 (Pre-'64) was FIRST PRODUCED in 1936.

The Second World War OFFICIALLY began on the 1st of September, 1939.

The Winchester Model 70, Pre-1964, action is THE BEST action that was available at the time of the war.

Whether someone used it or not is irrelevant. The technology was AVAILABLE at the time of the war.

Carlos Hathcock used a bull barrel, off the shelf, Model 70 in .30-06 in Vietnam (arguably a much tougher "hunting" environment) and he was credited with 93 CONFIRMED kills.

His mentor....

Charles "Chuck" Mawhinney, recorded 103 confirmed kills with a very similar (practically the same) rifle.

Simo had the benefit of working in -20 to -40 degree CELSIUS weather when the Soviet Union made the mistake of trying to invade Finland.

Yes, he has the most in service kills!
Yes, he has the most kills in the shortest period of service time!
Yes, he was a bad ass of epic proportion!

But he was facing an enemy, on HIS TURF, that was constantly advancing and was highlighted by the fact that every breath was exposed to anyone that was looking.

Shooting fish in a barrel (the guy recorded an average of FIVE KILLS a day, which is no accident) is an easy description.

But as effective as he was, he wasn't as instrumental as other snipers have been in other wars.

One shot can make a hell of a difference and snipers of the US have routinely made that difference time and again in all sorts of conflicts. (Did you know that Mark Bowden, Black Hawk Down, credits a DELTA sniper with killing Pablo Escobar?)

The Winchester Model 70, in a long or short action, was the finest action being produced AT THAT TIME. With a half assed barrel, I would still put it up against the "well made" Mosin or other offering from the Eastern Blok at the time and feel very comfortable.

JD

Nice post! My November 1918 built, Mint condition, US model of 1917 will shoot with any modern firearm out there. It is in full military configuration. It can shoot much better than me. I think it is equal to or better than the Winchester model 70. It also holds 6 rounds

As for sniper rifles of WW2 the Finnish M39 is the king of WW2. However they were much scarce to have any effect.

[unclebear]

I got to shoot the 1903 a little while back and just with iron sights I get the feeling that rifle is a tack driver in more capable hands. I didn't do too bad 100yards 4" group off bench but I think that a scoped version would have no problem putting rounds on target accurately just as well as some modern rifles. But 91/30 was cranked out of the factorys about as fast as ammo was, If I remember correctly the russian had more snipers then any other country during the war.

[billt]

The Springfield 03-A3 was a "good" bolt action rifle. It was not "the best" bolt action rifle of the war. It was basically a copy of the Mauser 98. That is what made it "good". Not the fact it was the United States that copied it.

[jpattersonnh]

Originally Posted by billt

The Springfield 03-A3 was a "good" bolt action rifle. It was not "the best" bolt action rifle of the war. It was basically a copy of the Mauser 98. That is what made it "good". Not the fact it was the United States that copied it.

Correct! The reason the K98 was better is that it fully supported the case head, the 1903 does not. There is this odd thing called a feed cone that is the cause of this on the '03.

[Trez]

According to the test the 91/30 was the best..
They were using period ammo as well.

Group sizes:
M91/30 PU 3.5X- 300 yd: 4.75"; 500 yd: 10"; 1,000yd: 16"
K98 ZF41 1.5X- 300yd: 6"; 400yd: 20" (At 400 yds the recticle post completely covered the target)
K98 ZF4 4X- 300yd: 5"; 500yd: 12"
M1903 Leatherwood 3X- 300yd: 2.5"; 500yd: 5"
M1903A4 2.5X- 300yd: 9.5"; 500yd: 16"
Enfield MK.VII No.4 (T) 3.5X- 300yd: 8"; 400yd: 16"

Hmmm... Seems to mt the M1903 with the Leatherwood 3X scope was doing pretty good; Wonder why they didnt shoot it at longer ranges??