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Old 07-08-2010, 03:28 AM   #11
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Where was your grandfather in November of 1963? Never mind, it couldn't be...
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Old 07-08-2010, 03:29 AM   #12
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Yes JPyle, but I was referring to it looked like it was a sporterized military rifle with an original barrel. I don't know of any old military rifles that used a barrel of 25cal or smaller. So unless the barrel was sleeved I don't see it as being a 25-06.
Also the bolt stampings just "look" like a part number to me, but as I said" Im no expert"
I would suggest having a smith do a cast of the chamber to be safe.
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Old 07-08-2010, 03:29 AM   #13
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Not funny.
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Old 07-08-2010, 03:51 AM   #14
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Yeah... I'm going to go with a "no" on that one, Vague.

Here are a few more pics of some of the numbers and stamps on it. Put that little Canon to the test. Sorry if they didn't come out too great.







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Old 07-08-2010, 03:52 AM   #15
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Started working on some of the rust. Good lord... its a dirty dirty rifle.
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:41 AM   #16
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Looks a lot like this 1891 Carcano. Here are some clues for identifying the model and manufacturing year. Many were produced in the Terni Arsenal

Carcano Model Identification

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Old 07-08-2010, 10:57 AM   #17
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Italian Carcano- Standard rifle of the Italian army- most in caliber 6.5 mm. TERNI is the name of the Italian Govt Arsenal that made them. Actually rather nice, light rifles, moderate recoil. The GI load used a LOOOOONG bullet that had a tendency to yaw (turn sideways) on impact.
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:30 PM   #18
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Be very careful before trying a .25-06 round in this rifle. The Carcano was designed for the 6.5 X 52 round. The pressures of a .25-06 would (IMHO) not be safe in this action. The .25-06 uses a 63mm long case and would not likely fit in the magazine. The .25-06 uses a smaller diameter bullet. Simply rechambering would not work well. It would have to have been rebarrelled and that barrel appears to be original.

Have a gunsmith check it over and make a chamber casting to confirm caliber.
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Old 07-08-2010, 03:36 PM   #19
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It's a sporterized Terni, Which is a variant of a carcano.
Here's what I found on it:

Calibre:




7,35 mm x 51


Length:




1020 mm


Barrel length:




540 mm


Weight:




3,6 kg


Magazine:




6, non-removable


Official abbreviations:




"7,35 kiv/38"


Country of origin:




Italy


Finnish use: Issued mostly to non-frontline troops (artillery and air-defence) in summer of 1941. Some unlucky frontline infantry units got issued with them also, in those units they got replaced with other rifle types during Continuation War.

This rifle was based to earlier Italian Carcano rifles originally mainly credited to Salvatore Carcano. Italian troops had become unhappy to ballistics of their 6,5 mm x 52 Carcano M/91 rifles during Italo-Abyssinian War (1935 - 1936). So a new version using 7.35-mm ammunition war introduced to production in 1938, but starting of World War 2 ruined Italian plans of making a transition the calibre of their service rifles. Hence the manufacturing of this rifle stopped in year 1940 and the Italians went back to manufacturing 6.5-mm rifles. As Italians decided to retain 6.5-mm as their standard service rifle calibre new 7.35-mm rifles become available with very cheap price. At the same time Finland had a serious shortage of rifles (and all other military equipment) during Winter War, so when the Italians offered new M/38 rifles the Finns immediately got interested. Negotiations took a lot of time, but finally in April of 1940 deliveries begun and 94,500 of ordered 100,000 rifles arrived to Finland in summer of 1940.

When Continuation War started Finnish military issued M/38 rifles were mainly to non-frontline troops like artillery, air-defence, supplies units and later after attacks of Soviet partisans even to civilians of remote villages close to eastern border. Also some unfortunate infantry units received these rifles. It didn't take long for Terni (most often used name in Finland used from this rifle, Fabbrica d'Armi di Terni was factory that had made the rifles) to gather a very poor reputation. Rifle had fixed (non-adjustable) rear sight (while the Finnish soldiers were accustomed for sighting in each rifle to get it hit exactly where the soldier using it aimed), poor ballistics and reportedly poor ammunition (with very large dispersion) just emphasised the whole issue. Bayonet of the rifle was removable, but folding. In typical the Mannlicher-fashion the 6-round ammunition clip was pushed through the non-removable magazine. Original Italian fixed sights had been set for distance of 200 meters, but the Finns equipped some of these rifles with new higher front sight blade, which reduced the setting of sights to 100 or 150 meters. However in majority of the rifles the original Italian fixed sights remained to the end. Finnish soldiers usually didn't trust this rifle one bit and whenever they got any possibility to switch it to any other weapon they typically instantly did so. Unfortunately, as transporting of extra weapons back was often difficult Finnish troops had also tendency to simply discard weapons that they had replaced with better (usually captured) ones. So if transporting Terni rifles replaced with better ones was difficult at that time, soldiers often simply threw them away.
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:04 PM   #20
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Great find. Good plan to keep it in the family. If you choose to donate it, I am just a hop, skip and a jump away
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