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GC_Vos 02-09-2010 12:20 PM

Designing a non-existant 7.62mm bullpup rifle
Hey guys,

I'm gonna have to start by telling you I know nothing about weapons compared to you guys, and I've never fired one (and probably never will knowing I live in The Netherlands). I am very much interested in how they work though, and I've been working on designing a non-existant assault rifle for a while now. Early concepts were merely mixtures from existing guns like this one:
(Yeah, I know the thing appears to have two magazines, but this was just a concept.)
Essentially, I'd like to incorporate two systems into the gun: a bullpup gas-operated configuration and an anti-recoil system comparable to the Kriss Super V, which would be shifted towards the front of the gun, preventing any muzzle climb. I want to make it the best possible rifle, which means the gun needs to be as accurate as possible, even when firing 7.62 NATO rounds on full auto.
I love how the SCAR, G36, P90 and TAR-21 look so there will be a lot of resemblance to those visually.
I'll come up with basic schematics of the internals as soon as possible and I'd like to know if I got all the parts correctly, if the gun could work theoretically.
Do you think a bullpup 7.62mm assault rifle with a Super V system could work? Beware the system preventing barrel elevation will be positioned in front of the trigger, requiring some complicated internals because the receiver is behind the trigger.

Thanks for any reply!

robocop10mm 02-09-2010 12:47 PM

One of the biggest hurdles to be overcome in any bullpup design is the trigger. Most bullpups have some sort of elongated trigger bar to allow forward triggers and rearward fire controls (sear, disconnector and hammer). This bar flexes and drags to give both a heavy and mushy trigger feel. Perhaps an electronic trigger to eliminate the transfer bar? If the barrel were lowered (ala Kriss) it would help with muzzle jump. If the optics/sights were atop the gas/piston system it could get high enough to be useable.
A quiet brake/flash hider like the DTA MilBrake could also help with recoil management.
A big problem with a large capacity caliber like the 7.62 NATO is there will be significant muzzle blast. Couple that with a muzzle 10 inches or so closer to the shooter's face can lead to some uncomfortable shooting. A bullpup will allow a full length barrel (20" or more) in a compact package. Getting full burn of the powder charge will help with the blast.

GC_Vos 02-09-2010 12:50 PM

Thanks for your insight. :)

Do rifles with electronic triggers exist (and work well under harsh conditions)?

robocop10mm 02-09-2010 01:42 PM

Remington had an electronic firing mechanism that used a pulse to activate the primer. There was no firing pin/striker. I believe they called it E-trex or something like that. IIRC there were electronic triggers on some olympic type target pistols (Hammerli?).

GC_Vos 02-09-2010 02:33 PM

How do you guys feel about the Super V system? Have any of you used the Vector and noticed any significant difference versus say, the MP5 or UMP? There aren't that many reviews about it but what I'm reading is positive:

Recoil was amazingly lightójust as advertised and the center dot of the EOTech never recoiled off target.
Is it true muzzle climb kicks in when the bullet leaves the barrel or does the weapon elevate when the gun powder ignites? If that's so, I think the weapon would have to feature a blowback or recoil system to work properly. Would gas work?

robocop10mm 02-10-2010 01:49 PM

If you look at the physics that take place in milliseconds you will see that while the powder is burning/expanding and the case and bullet are still in the gun the forward forces are equal to the rearward forces. The expanding gasses act equally on the breech face and bullet. When the bullet exits the barrel the forward forces go to zero so the gun begins to recoil. The gas pressure leaving the muzzle is a prt of the recoil equation. More powder, more gasses more recoil.

In a locked breech set up like a Browning tilting barrel system, the bullet actually pulls the barrel forward while in contact with the rifling. The length of the link, the friction in the moving parts the distance the slide moves before unlocking the barrel have little or nothing to do with the locking/unlocking timing. The barrel simply cannot move to the rear/drop until the bullet leaves the muzzle because the bullet is acting upon the barrel as the powder is acting on the bullet. The whole system is stable until the barrel leaves the barrel.

GC_Vos 02-10-2010 01:59 PM

Thanks for the explanation. That would mean the rifle should be gas-operated so the anti-recoil system kicks in at the exact same time the bullet leaves the barrel.

zacwright 07-17-2011 10:43 PM

id use a shortstroke blowback system, and instead of a super-v id just have a muzel break that directs gas upwards at the end of the muzzel at say 45degrees upwards left and right. and add a fore grip. you might also want to think about interchangable barrels and see if you can design the magazine well to take a standard nato 7.62 belt.

Ploofy 07-18-2011 01:29 AM

Electronic systems are marginally more accurate than mechanical ones in most cases, but are much more prone to malfunction. You need a power source, too. And with a bullpup, not a lot of places for that.

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