Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Gunsmithing & Do-It-Yourself Projects > DIY Projects > Big Thunder II Vs. Fenrir: The 1911 .460 Rowland Build Off

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Old 02-25-2009, 06:02 PM   #31
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So, winner of this competition is the first one to publish a range report?
I think I need to agree with JD on this one.

The FTF champ/chump should not be based on the UPS/USPS lottery winner.

JD and I have more than just getting to a "running gun' position. We need to make these two guns our own!

And as JD stated, we have two different re-finishers (with different work loads) that will be putting the final personal touches on the guns (and I'm not sending Fenrir out before I get Canebrake back) so my suggestion is to have a come to Jesus meeting of the finished projects and put the decision to a FTF vote. You guys need to make that decision. And I know all my FTF buddies will vote for me over JD!
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:44 PM   #32
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I initially offered odds on the build-off, but I have come to realize that the only way to call a winner is to let me shoot them myself. I say you two come to me with the builds. Over a 2 day period, I will test them and the micro-brews you bring with you. I offer my services as final judge.

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Old 02-25-2009, 11:30 PM   #33
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I got to come to your place, bring my hand cannon, ammo AND beer?!? Sweet Jesus, you don't want much, do you?? LOL

JD

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Old 02-26-2009, 01:10 AM   #34
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Okay, I admit, my fur is turning a little green and my Rage-O-Meter is a tad bit higher than it was before I logged in.....
H..O..W..E..V..E..R: 185 grains? Really Cane? You weak, limp wristed old man.
That's a Junk Punch/B1tch Slap! I snatched up what was available dude.

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The WHOLE REASON for this build in the first place was to throw .44 Magnum type loads out of my 1911. That's 240 grains last time I checked, according to the inspiration behind this build in the first place. Mack Bolan's .44 Automag, Big Thunder.

Now, I admit that it isn't as fast & flashy as Cane's little 185 grainer - but 230 grains hitting you in the chest with 917 foot pounds of energy behind it is definitely the equivalent to getting hit by a Nolan Ryan Fastball.
"...as Cane's little 185 grainer..." Let's take a look at my little 185 grainer;
This is a screen shot of my Excel energy calculator.

........................Weight....Velocity........Energy
Ammo................grains......fps..............lb/ft
GA 45 Ball...........185..........900............333
GA 45 Ball...........230..........810............335
GA 460 JHP.........185..........1550..........987
CorBon 460 JHP....185.........1425...........834
CorBon 460 JHP....230.........1250...........798
CorBon 460 BC.....255.........1100...........685
44 Rem Mag........210.........1250...........729
44 Rem Mag........240.........1180...........742

Oh look, cane's little 185 grainer is not only the fastest, but releases the most energy. Wait, let me do the math for you JD, that's 13 ft/lbs short of 1/2 TON! How's that working for you Noland?

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That's what I am talking about on power - but not at that price. Sweet Jesus Cane, you are going to be sleeping on that patio you keep spending that kind of cash on ammo. $1.41 a bullet??
JD, you having an estrogen balance problem? B1tch, b1tch, b1tch, too light, too expensive, too fast, too shiny! Does this 255 gr make my brass look fat? Got your monthly visitor JD?

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You still don't have a kit, you crazy sidewinder. And then your feeble old ass still has to compress that 24 pound spring...
Let me get back to you tomorrow afternoon. I'm up to it!

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And, as you come from an engineering background I know you will appreciate this. Some of us actually would like to observe the increase in pressure over the standard .45 ACP at a gradual pace, instead of He-Manning right into the top loads and have the slide become a permanent part of your anatomy.
If you check the table above you will see that's exactly what I would be doing if I use the 255 gr first. It has the least energy release of all the 460s.

In science there is only physics, everything else is stamp collecting! With that said lets take a layman's look at muzzle velocity. Simply put velocity is a function of chamber pressure and barrel length. (For you anal-retentive types, bore diameter and powder burn rate play a part but it's my story so F-off) Another simplification is the barrel length variable is really a time function. The longer the barrel the longer the base of the bullet remains pressurized and the faster it leaves the muzzle. With our 5" government 1911's this remains constant. ERGO, the round with the highest velocity is the round with the highest pressure.

Therefore, the Georgia Arms .460 Rowland 185gr Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point is KING TUT!



From left to right; Georgia Arms 460 185 gr jhp, Georgia Arms 460 185 gr jhp, Cor Bon 255 gr BC, Georgia Arms 45 230 gr ball, Cor Bon 255 gr BC.

What does BC stand for? I like to call it 'Bone Crusher' but Cor Bon has other ideas. The BC is a Cor Bon Hunter designation and stands for Bonded Core. Bone Breaking Power!
CORBON'S Bonded-Core style bullets are true heavy-duty hunting bullets of the highest quality. Each bullet is carefully weighed, swaged and inspected by hand to ensure that you have the strongest bonded bullet available. The soft lead core is bonded to the outer jacket to make a bullet that will not break apart. These bullets stay together when pushed to very high velocities - they expand producing excellent knockdown power and stay in one mass to provide deep controlled penetration. This is the bullet you need for deer, bear, elk, moose, and other trophy game animals.

Tough Enough!
CORBON's Hunter loads are tough enough to hunt the world over. They have been used by our customers on hunts for African big game, including Rhino and Cape Buffalo. No matter what your target, you'll have a success hunt with CORBON's Hunter line of ammunition.

The sharpie marks on the brass are the BBB (Bullet Belly-Bulge) and here you can see that overall length is the same but the seat depth is reflective of the weight of the bullet.

Hey ORANGE (soon to be GREEN) FURRY GUY, I'm so going to kick your A$$!


.460 Rowland .... done the Canebrake way!
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Old 02-26-2009, 01:39 AM   #35
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*Yawn*

I'm sorry, were you saying something Cane?

I was too busy shopping for scopes for Mjolnir, moderating the rest of the forum, and OOOOHHHH YYYEEEAAAHHHHH, playing with my newly built .460 Rowland and checking fit and function.

You do have a point in the energy transfer, and I discovered that after doing some more reading, so I am going to conceded that at THIS TIME you have the edge in that department. I humbly apologize to your self inflated greatness.

Luckily for me I happen to know a guy who holds TWO little things called WORLD RECORDS in shooting 600 Yards and 1,000 Yards in Benchrest. Happens to reload each and every round he shoots, has been doing it for awhile now, and is VERY INTRIGUED in our little project. His name is Don Rose and he shoots out of the Upper Nisqually Rifle Club. Kind of a legend in these parts. So he offered to take a look at the rounds in question and help me make a few subtle changes to get the most UMPH out of them. I'll let you know what we come up with..... a little while AFTER we do.

Good luck with that spring. You might want to have an extra bowl of Wheaties.....

JD

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Old 02-26-2009, 01:42 PM   #36
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So how long until one of you post some pictures of your projects? I'm really interested in your competition and seeing some before and after stuff.

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Old 02-26-2009, 01:46 PM   #37
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So how long until one of you post some pictures of your projects? I'm really interested in your competition and seeing some before and after stuff.
Go to Page three and you can see me assembling my .460 Kit.

Cane's is off in the Never-Never along with Unicorns, the Tooth Fairey, and the Michael Jackson & Lisa Marie Presley Union.

JD
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Old 02-26-2009, 01:57 PM   #38
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You guys crack me up!

Those range reports are going to be interesting.

JD, if I win the raffle I'll figure a way to get the gun down here, don't worry.

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Old 02-26-2009, 01:59 PM   #39
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You guys crack me up!

Those range reports are going to be interesting.

JD, if I win the raffle I'll figure a way to get the gun down here, don't worry.
LOL, or you can just come and visit Cane, spend some time with him, drink his Bourbon, enjoy his sunset, eat his grilled steaks and then leave with HIS pistol...
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:44 PM   #40
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If yours is supposed to be better, why would I want to abscond with Cane's?

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