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Old 04-02-2013, 01:22 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
Sharpshooter - this is known as a case of "Just because you can, maybe you shouldn't."
i have to agree with this 100%. without researching gun laws beforehand, and knowing exactly, and i mean exactly what's legal and what's not can land you into big trouble quickly. and good intentions won't mean diddly squat to the ATF. they have no sense of humor when it comes to infractions of their laws.

beings as you're only 15, might i suggest you learn a little more before tackling projects that could possibly get you into legal trouble. just suggestion.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:38 AM   #22
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You don't want to camp out in a federal pen until you are 35, right?

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Old 05-16-2013, 08:20 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by MisterMcCool View Post

I would call it a pistol as well. But a vertical foregrip on a pistol creates a AOW. I was just surprised the BATFE ruled that this particular firearm was not considered an AOW. That ruling set a precedence.
It is removeable.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:42 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by atrbertothy View Post
It is removeable.
I have some letters from the ATF(they like those letters) that indicate that if the total length is 26.5 or more you can put a vertical fore grip on it removable or not. Rifle or pistol stock)
as to some other issues:
if you accept money for modifications or work on a gun you are considered "in the business" and must have an FFL.(even if you do the work and return it the same day)
you cannot keep a customers fire arm over nite without a FFL as it must be logged into your books. And
you must be 21 yrs of age to get an FFL
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:38 AM   #25
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The answer to the FFL is one that I've used many a time. Just have the owner maintain possession of the weapon while the work is being done. Period, show's over. So does the OP need an FFL? Not unless he garners possession of the weapon. And this isn't a 24 hour vs. overnight type of thing. If a guy simple takes possession of a weapon and the owner leaves for an hour lunch, the guy would indeed need an FFL. I speak from experience since I was my department's gunsmith for a number of years with an FFL in possession. Laws and paperwork got insane so I gave it up.

About the work. Finest I've seen in a long while as I own one of those guns and basically want to do the same thing. So if the OP would please send me a PM I'd love to pick your brain awhile on the pistol grip portion and how you got the regular, hole doesn't match up grip to secure on the Circuit Judge. I also have other ideas for the gun that I'd like to run by you to see what you think on the matter so Please PM me as soon as you can.

Now guns legality. With mine I first plan on getting rid of those darn chokes. Only way to do that is to cut it off thus making the barrel shorter and to add the pistol grip and shorter yet. I know that would be NFA territory so I wouldn't be done or stay that way for just a few minutes so as not to get busted. My plan is to permanently affix a phony stainless can to the muzzle of the barrel bringing it back to its 18.5 inches plus just a little bit longer to make up for the overall length loss on the pistol grip. The can will be around six inches total length and will make everyone happy and me legal. It will look awesome and the pattern will not be affected since the can (pipe) will be much larger than bore size. I then have a 20 MOA Picatinny stainless rail that will replace the existing one and make my flashlight mount converge on POA so my POI will be the same for house distances.

For those that do not know, this gun is made sold and registered as a rifle and rifle only. So why does it come with an 18.5 inch barrel? It was a way that Rossi bought off with BATFE in their agreement with them. This was not only for national sales, but specifically for California sales, Yeah!. You see CA has a big nasty looking law that says in no way with their ever be a revolving shotgun in CA. Well this gun is not. It's a revolving rifle and the feds are backing that up and threatening CA with a violation of interstate commerce if thy don't allow them into the state. Now's the time to get one and so I did. So the part of the Rossi agreement around the 18.5 inch barrel is that as a revolving rifle, if one was to put a commercially available shotgun round in it, some may question its use if the barrel was only 16.5 inches. To avoid that conflict, Rossi decided to make the barrel 18.5 inches to just stay away from that issue. Thus my project's barrel will still maintain the 18.5 inch barrel length.

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Old 01-14-2014, 10:15 AM   #26
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The BATF has this thing of calling some modifications to a firearm as manufacturing (especially if money is involved).
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/manufacturers.html#dealer-gunsmithing

And manufacturing without a license is a no-no.

How about stopping by the intro area and say "Hi".

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Old 01-14-2014, 07:12 PM   #27
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OOPS, Doubled up for awhile.

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Old 01-14-2014, 07:17 PM   #28
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Quote:
The BATF has this thing of calling some modifications to a firearm as manufacturing (especially if money is involved).
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/manufacturers.html#dealer-gunsmithing
Yes, this refers to alterations to a gun that changes the description of the type of gun it is. This would be the case if someone took a say .444 Marlin lever action and bored it out to a smooth bore 410. Then the gun would become a shotgun and the smith would therefore be making a shotgun, thus needing a manufacturing license. Same would be true with sawing off too much of a rifle or shotgun. There was a company that use to take old Remington model 870's and saw them off (12 to 13 inches as I recall) and rib them (if they already weren't), install a big head safety, install a rubber pistol grip, clean up the action a bit and do a very durable phosphate finish over the entire gun, and finally stamp a new serial number on the gun as they had just manufactured an Any Other Weapon. So the buyer had to pay a $5.00 tax stamp instead of the $200.00 dollar stamp if he'd done the cutting himself. This was how some of the first Mare's Legs came to be. And now the Mare's Legs are simply manufactured as a pistol from the start.

Now for the OP, If the barrel was not cut and with the pistol grip the 26" overall length was maintained, he's OK and no law was broke if and only if the customer or friend stayed present, maintaining possession of the piece throughout the process.

The work I'm going to do on my Circuit Judge IS going to involve two other people. Namely my son and his boss (a very good friend of mine) to cut and mill flush the muzzle and then to affix a turned piece of stainless to the shorter barrel that is large enough to mate with the ID of a piece of stainless pipe, previously turned, to the end of the barrel. I will remove the cylinder so that no one could accuse me or my partners of having a functioning sawed off anything. And each piece will be manufactured prior to cutting the barrel so that as soon as the barrel is cut and faced, it will be welded permanently to the barrel. This piece or phony silencer will compensate for the reduced barrel length and for the reduced overall length so I will stay totally legal throughout the process and end up with a very neat gun after finished.

By the way, was I the one being referred to when suggested to stop by the intro area to say howdy? Smithy.
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:19 PM   #29
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We offer the "stop by "Introductions"" to every new person.

When I offered it, you had only 1 post. There is some good info there.

Stop by and say "HI"

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Old 01-14-2014, 07:34 PM   #30
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Will do and thank you. Smithy.

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