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Old 02-13-2014, 12:00 AM   #31
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Yes, I have turned down work that I thought I was not going to perform 110% better than expected. A gunsmith should only work on something that they feel very confident that the firearm or part meets or exceeds the safety standard and the wishes of the owner.

I would probably take trade for work, but I would prefer money as later on if there was an issue and I was going to give a refund, it would be easier to handle cash as the client may want back what you have traded or sold out.

As the the license. The ATF has stated that gunsmithing does meet the requirements as a dealer. You can research it for yourself below. If you are in the buisness of gunsmithing, I would be pro-FFL, as most of the time you get discounts on parts you may need. The discounts can add up to the cost of the FFL in a very short time depending on the amount of business you do, so it is somewhat cost effective.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html
I believe that the man is working under the FFL of the gun ship owner. That's how it appears to me. I know that he has a dealer account with Brownell's, but then again, so do I! Anybody with a tax number can get one and once a dealer always a dealer. I still get dealer pricing on all Brownell's merchandise. But because I do not have a FFL (and can not afford one) there are certain items that I can not buy direct, so I have to ask a local gun shop to receive them for me under their FFL. Bottom line is that any one with a tax number and the use of someone else's FFL could open up a store as a "gunsmith" and what I don't know about guns would fill a library!

John
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:55 PM   #32
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I believe that the man is working under the FFL of the gun ship owner. That's how it appears to me. I know that he has a dealer account with Brownell's, but then again, so do I! Anybody with a tax number can get one and once a dealer always a dealer. I still get dealer pricing on all Brownell's merchandise. But because I do not have a FFL (and can not afford one) there are certain items that I can not buy direct, so I have to ask a local gun shop to receive them for me under their FFL. Bottom line is that any one with a tax number and the use of someone else's FFL could open up a store as a "gunsmith" and what I don't know about guns would fill a library!

John
Yes, a gunsmith could work on a gunstores FFL, as all the employees of that store do as well. And yes, most companies never take you off their FFL discount program as they never check to see if you still currently have one, so once on always on only applies to those that don't require you to update them periodically. Even doing gunsmithing under someone elses FFL, you are still required by the ATF to update all the needed paper work per firearm worked on and stored at the FFL holders location. When having a FFL, you are assigned to a specific field office and sometimes a specific ATF agent, so all those conducting gunsmithing, can check with the FFL holders assigned agent with any questions you might have regarding anything at all pertaining to you conducting your business.

I do believe that the Dealers FFL is only $200 every 3 years, so it isn't very much. The C&R is only $30, but you can't conduct business as a gunsmith on that. But thats at the federal level only. Some states or local governments might have further requirements.

Pertaining to knowledge. My instructors in PLDC in the Army told me that it was not my duty to know everything nor expected of me, but they were going to train me on how to find the answer to that of which I did not know. How many firearms or laws are out there? Too many to count. But with a little time and effort, you can always get the knowledge you need. Google is a powerful tool.

Contacting the BBB probably would get you nowhere. A good starting point on getting the problem fixed would be to contact the FFL dealer that he is using and see if they can do anything to pump some pride in his work. Gunsmiths are a little different than a normal service departments as most of the time we cater to a small client based community and most of our work comes from word of mouth vs an advertisement. There are lot of shotty gunsmiths out there that get some sort of cert online or through the mail. I have two certifications through these means, but I also have classroom time through actual schools that offer gunsmithing courses. My first suggestion would be to see some sort of credantials prior to giving him my work or at the least some pictures of work he has performed. A friend of mine who calls himself a gun hobbiest, told me once "there are gunsmiths and parts swappers". A smith will research the project and more times than none give you the item back in better condition than you gave it to him, while a swapper gives you the item back with a new part while the problem may or may not still exist.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:22 AM   #33
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And yes, most companies never take you off their FFL discount program as they never check to see if you still currently have one, so once on always on only applies to those that don't require you to update them periodically.
Brownell's does not go by the reseller's FFL, they go by the reseller's tax number. This is issued by the state and used when you pay the state sales tax collected on your sales. Brownell's then assigns the reseller a dealer number then from then on they use the assigned dealer number for all purchases. In reality there is nothing to renew.

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A good starting point on getting the problem fixed would be to contact the FFL dealer that he is using and see if they can do anything to pump some pride in his work.
These are two peas in a pod. The shop owner and the machinist are long time cronies and they both threw me out of the shop! So no help there.

My bottom line about this entire affair is that I've learned a valuable lesson, which I will not repeat. I am also not going to do anything further about it other than forget it. I will not go out of my way to bad mouth the guy. If someone asks me my opinion of him and the gun shop, I will most certainly tell them and warn them off. But I am not contacting a lawyer of anything like that. It's not worth my time. Had the man totally ruined my guns (which he did not) and if I could have gotten a qualified gunsmith to say so, then maybe. But I could only sue for the guns value, about $2,200.00 total and the lawyer would get most of that!

My guns are better now. I learned how to take care of them and keep then running smoothly. All's good.

John
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