Gunsmithing school online yes or no? - Page 4
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Gunsmithing & Do-It-Yourself Projects > Gunsmithing Forum > Gunsmithing school online yes or no?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-17-2014, 12:15 PM   #31
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
clr8ter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Central NH
Posts: 3,262
Liked 982 Times on 648 Posts
Likes Given: 630

Default

Machining is just his "Thing". He's lucky. I'm still looking for my "Thing".

__________________

I don't see what the problem is. Everybody is being nice, and getting along, and I, for one, am learning stuff. So, if you don't like the discussion, don't look at the thread. Or, simply cut to the chase, and close it.
_________________
Is there an age limit for a thread, after which we kill it?

clr8ter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 04:35 PM   #32
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Highpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upper Mississippi Valley
Posts: 1,547
Liked 355 Times on 200 Posts
Likes Given: 292

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WebleyFosbery38 View Post
..... But he can literally set up a machine and shave steel perfectly to the .000000001 decimal place perfectly every time.
Literally? Really? I'm sorry, but there is no other way to put this. That is complete and utter horse S!!t.



You are describing a nanometer (10 ^9) which is a measurement that is at the electron microscope level. Your tool maker friend isn't getting anywhere near this with a milling machine or lathe, much less measuring it with his micrometer or calipers. Getting to .0001 normally requires the use of some type of surface grinding equipment, unless you have a serious machining center.
__________________
Highpower is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2014, 05:12 PM   #33
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
clr8ter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Central NH
Posts: 3,262
Liked 982 Times on 648 Posts
Likes Given: 630

Default

I personally consider .001" to be damn good. But from what I understand, the latest and greatest CNC machines can hold .0001". Do I believe it? Not really, in real life. I worked at a shop where they used to turn down the heat at night in the winter. You would start up the lathes in the morning, and the parts would be good. As the building warmed up, the dimensions would change. Now keep in mind that we're talking less than .001" here. But those were the tolerances on that part...

__________________

I don't see what the problem is. Everybody is being nice, and getting along, and I, for one, am learning stuff. So, if you don't like the discussion, don't look at the thread. Or, simply cut to the chase, and close it.
_________________
Is there an age limit for a thread, after which we kill it?

clr8ter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2014, 10:51 AM   #34
Big TOW
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WebleyFosbery38's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Irish Settlement CNY
Posts: 5,459
Liked 6134 Times on 3038 Posts
Likes Given: 6513

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highpower View Post
Literally? Really? I'm sorry, but there is no other way to put this. That is complete and utter horse S!!t.



You are describing a nanometer (10 ^9) which is a measurement that is at the electron microscope level. Your tool maker friend isn't getting anywhere near this with a milling machine or lathe, much less measuring it with his micrometer or calipers. Getting to .0001 normally requires the use of some type of surface grinding equipment, unless you have a serious machining center.
Ok, again, I added a couple zero's cause I cant tell you for sure what he measures (Im an electronics guy, I do Micro and Nano but thats in farads, ohms and frequencies not spaces between things), I parse volts, watts and other things to the .000001 daily but I dont really do measurements that dont come off a tape measure. I do fix scanning electron microscopes but thats as close as I get to tiny.

You know so I will say it for those that dont, as a tool/ die maker, his skills are far superior to a typical machinist or smith when it comes to making precise things. Sometimes I listen to his surface grinder for days in a row, its an irritating noise, he runs it 2 or three hours before he does a single pass on material to stabilize it, says the machine grows and shrinks enough to change the precision of the grind as it warms up!

All I am sure of is Gary has hundreds of marks that he works with between the smallest ones on my tape measure (1/32nd). He just chuckles when a scientist sends him a henscratch drawing in inches, +/- how much? My overstatement was more of a respect factor for those that can create things that perfect that I cannot even measure. I didnt mean to imply that I had a clue as to how precise it was. I cant even envision that kind of accuracy, he puts it in terms of parts of a human hair, my carpentry works is more like measurements of clumps of hair!

Having a tool shop beside my Sciences Electronics shop is awesome. He has made me tons of odds and end parts in the last 20 years. All I have to do is take my dremel tool out and start cutting on something and here comes Gair, "what are you doing?", my response is "what took you so long?"! Just never ask a toolmaker to do a quick thing, "hey Gair, can you make a quick cut for me?", its just not what they do. I have my own drill press and bandsaw in the shop to do the rough stuff myself (if he doesnt catch me doing it).
__________________

Last edited by WebleyFosbery38; 08-18-2014 at 10:57 AM.
WebleyFosbery38 is offline  
MisterMcCool Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2014, 04:24 PM   #35
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Highpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upper Mississippi Valley
Posts: 1,547
Liked 355 Times on 200 Posts
Likes Given: 292

Default

I believe in giving credit where credit is due. But exaggerated claims of accuracy stated as fact don't paint an honest picture to those who might not know any better. That leads to false expectations and regurgitated misinformation that doesn't help anyone. How many times do we have to suffer claims of 2" groups from a rimfire rifle at 300 yards and the like. Embellishment / exaggeration is one thing, but totally outrageous claims are another.

Getting back to the OP, hands-on is the best way to learn by far. Having someone experienced there to teach and guide you along the way is the ultimate environment to be in. But not everyone has those options available to them for various reasons and have to make do with less than optimal choices. That doesn't mean that they can't be a mighty fine gunsmith though.

__________________
Highpower is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2014, 11:39 PM   #36
Big TOW
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WebleyFosbery38's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Irish Settlement CNY
Posts: 5,459
Liked 6134 Times on 3038 Posts
Likes Given: 6513

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highpower View Post

Getting back to the OP, hands-on is the best way to learn by far. Having someone experienced there to teach and guide you along the way is the ultimate environment to be in. But not everyone has those options available to them for various reasons and have to make do with less than optimal choices. That doesn't mean that they can't be a mighty fine gunsmith though.
Dont get me wrong, I do plenty of cutting and forming, its my favorite pastime with about 4000 Sq ft 190 year old home. Ive been restoring for the last 12 years, mostly with Hardwoods and poplar. Its with a bit rougher set of tools with allot less power but a finger wont slow any of them down for a second (Table saw, Sawzall, ChopSaw's, Router's, Planer,...). Just as dangerous in the wrong hands without someone to show you how to keep your digits attached (He says as he knocks on wood).

Im tactile, I couldnt imagine learning anything machine wise without the hands on with a pro to answer my questions. Honestly, if I wanted to learn machining in the old style (No computer controlled EDM's), Gary would teach me but why learn when I have Gary already? He made a brand new shaft for my snowblower auger a few years ago, cut gears and everything. It was perfect and all it cost was for me to fix his hot-tub, perfect trade and I get to keep all my fingers!

See we agree, that was my point if you look back, Im not an expert at machining, I did exagerate, should have written in Green (note to self, use green more often). Ive been well trained to avoid the dangers of machines that cut steel like butter without a baby sitter with the right background.
__________________
WebleyFosbery38 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2014, 03:27 PM   #37
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Highpower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Upper Mississippi Valley
Posts: 1,547
Liked 355 Times on 200 Posts
Likes Given: 292

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highpower View Post
Getting back to the OP, hands-on is the best way to learn by far. Having someone experienced there to teach and guide you along the way is the ultimate environment to be in. But not everyone has those options available to them for various reasons and have to make do with less than optimal choices. That doesn't mean that they can't be a mighty fine gunsmith though.
This was about the original subject of learning the gunsmithing trade in general. I was not referring to any of your own personal skills WF. I was just trying to say that there are some folks in the world that can do some fine work with firearms that have no "formal" training. I'm sure there are some with a diploma from a recognized trade school that are complete hacks when doing their own work, and only in it to make a fast buck when they hang their "gunsmith" shingle.

The latter is the reason I learned everything I could (and I'm still learning) about the subject so I could do my own work, because some of the so-called "professionals" have butchered a couple of my firearms in the past. Never again. If I want it done right, I'll do it myself.

Finding a good gunsmith is even harder than finding a good mechanic these days. They ARE out there, but there are far fewer of them.
__________________
Highpower is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
AGI Gunsmithing Course Gangrene Gunman Gunsmithing Forum 10 06-11-2010 06:32 PM
Gunsmithing? Here's the man for M1 and M1A Silvertip 44 Gunsmithing Forum 0 01-12-2010 01:59 AM
gunsmithing basics rocker Gunsmithing Forum 7 03-23-2008 03:09 PM