Bore coat
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Gunsmithing & Do-It-Yourself Projects > Gunsmithing Forum > Bore coat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-15-2009, 10:19 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default Bore coat

I would like to know if anyone has any experience with the Ultra Bore Coating product. I have a .270 that fouls horribly. I have polished the bore with polishing compound and I have fired 20 of Billly Tubs special bulllets down the bore. That helped the most. I have purchased the Outers Foul Out system and several copper solvents. I would not bother with all this if the gun were not an absolute tack driver. Anyone tried the stuff?

Alvah

__________________
Alvah is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 12-15-2009, 10:45 PM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mrm14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 2,374
Liked 303 Times on 202 Posts
Likes Given: 27

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvah View Post
I would like to know if anyone has any experience with the Ultra Bore Coating product. I have a .270 that fouls horribly. I have polished the bore with polishing compound and I have fired 20 of Billly Tubs special bulllets down the bore. That helped the most. I have purchased the Outers Foul Out system and several copper solvents. I would not bother with all this if the gun were not an absolute tack driver. Anyone tried the stuff?

Alvah
I assume your experiencing copper fouling. And no, I havn't used the stuff. However I have a few questions.
Is your barrel a factory barrel?
Are you using a brass bore brush?
How many rounds have you put through the barrel?
Is the barrel stainless or chrome moly?
__________________

Last edited by mrm14; 12-15-2009 at 10:51 PM.
mrm14 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2009, 11:16 PM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Yes it is copper.
Yes it is factory. A Browning A-Bolt Medallion
I have used brass/bronze brushes. I know, they will leave residue that turns the patches blue/green
I have put a couple hundred since aquiring it at least. The fouling occurred right from the beginning. I am familiar with this kind of fouling, I had a .257 Ackley Improved 40' that gave me fits years ago.
Can't tell you that, whatever Browning uses.
I have a Pac-Nor .270 barrel on a custom Mauser that is as smooth as glass. By comparison you can feel the friction of the fouling in this factory barrel. I have been soaking it since Sun. night by repeatedly running patches down it with Butchs Bore Shine. I have found that if I leave the patch in the bore, it eats the copper out in that area quickly. I should mention that the copper is visible when looking down the barrel, on top of all 4 lands. Just like it is plated.

Alvah

I should also point out that when it was new there seemed to be a spot about 4 inches long down in the middle area of the barrel. This seems to be gone with the Tubbs system. The area that fouls is the last 3 inches of the barrel.

__________________

Last edited by Alvah; 12-16-2009 at 12:28 AM. Reason: More info
Alvah is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2009, 12:51 AM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mrm14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 2,374
Liked 303 Times on 202 Posts
Likes Given: 27

Default

Well you've eliminated the blue green indications on the patches that you are aware of from the brass bore brush. It's a factory barrel and is not been finished lapped such as a custom barrel by Krieger, Bartline, etc..

You might try Sweets 7.62 ammonia based cleaner to get the copper out of the barrel and throat. Follow directions on this stuff exactly.
Get it clean and next time you take it out to shoot try the "fire-one-shot-and-clean" break in procedure.

Fire 5 - 25 - one-shot-cycles, cleaning barrel with patch only between each shot fired. Then 2 - three-shot cycles, cleaning barrel between these two cycles. Then 1 - five-shot cycle and clean. Initally you should perform the shoot one shot and clean cycle for five cycles. If fouling hasn't reduced, fire five more cycles and so on until fouling begins to drop off. At that point shoot three shots befor cleaning and observe. If the fouling is reduced, fire five shots before cleaning. This might help this situation with the copper fouling of your barrel.

If the barrel is not finished lapped, there will be reamer marks left in the bore that are directly across the direction of the bullet travel. This occurs even in a button rifled barrel, as the button cannot completely iron out these reamer marks.
Very little is done to the bore during break-in, but the throat is another story. When your barrel is chambered, by necessity, there are reamer marks left in the throat that are across the lands, i.e. across the direction of the bullet travel. In a new barrel they are very distinct: much like teeth on a very fine file. When the bullet is forced into the throat, copper dust is released into a gas which at this temperature and pressure is actually a plasma. The copper dust is vaporized in this gas and is carried down the barrel. As the gas expands and cools the copper comes out of suspension and is depositeed in the bore. This makes it appear as if the source of the fouling is the bore when it is actually for the most part the new throat. If this copper is allowed to stay in the bore, and subsequent bullets are fired over it; copper which adhears well to itself, will build up quickly and may be difficult to remove later. So when you break in a barrel, your goal is to get the throat polished without allowing copper to build up in the bore. This is the reasoning for the "fire one shot and clean" procedure.

Finally, the best way to break-in the barrel is to observe when the barrel is broken in; i.e. when the fouling is reduced. This is better than some set number of cycles of "shoot and clean" as many owners report practically no fouling after the first few shots, and more break in would be pointless. Conversly, if if more is required, a set number would not address that either. Besides, cleaning is not a completely benign procedure so it should be done carefully and no more than necessary.

I would try doing this before applying a bore coat to your barrel.

__________________
mrm14 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2009, 11:28 AM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Thanks for the response. I think everyone has a favorite copper solvent. I have Shooters Choice, Butch's Bore Shine, and Hoppe's #9 Copper Solvent. They are all based on ammonia. This is not a brand new gun and I have "cleaned it" extensively. I understand that cleaning can damage a bore but I had nothing to lose and I subscribe to the theory that no brass brush and a little metal polish is going to hurt a modern firearm. After all, running 20 grit incrusted bullets down the bore has got to be far more aggressive.
I used an old broken cleaning rod and attached a brass brush with a patch wrapped around it and metal polish. This rod had a second patch holder behind the brush and I used a copper cleaner on this patch. I attached the rod to a cordless drill and made several passes at a time with this setup.This polished the copper in the bore to a nice bright ribbon. The visible copper in the muzzle did not come out until I left the patch in the bore to soak the immediate area in contact with the bore for a few hours at a time and move the patch incrementally down the barrel.
After all the polishing, the Tubbs system, and the normal cleaning and shooting, I don't think the break-in procedure can produce the honing of the bore that the grit methods have not. I do not want to buy another set of the Tubbs bullets as they are not cheap but they got the most results.
Thanks for the advice, I thought someone may have tried this stuff as John Barshnes promoted the crap out of it. I also thought that many others may have had these kinds of issues with a factory bore fouling up. Of course, I have found the average gun owner/hunter wouldn't know anything about barrel fouling, just that the gun stopped shooting good.

Thanks again,
Alvah

__________________
Alvah is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2009, 03:11 PM   #6
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CA357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 19,871
Liked 1175 Times on 510 Posts
Likes Given: 2978

Default

Good luck Alvah, it really sounds like a hassle. Personally, I like Sweets and use it regularly to prevent build up.

__________________
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”Samuel Adams
CA357 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2009, 05:41 PM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
stalkingbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lebanon,Ky
Posts: 3,621
Liked 11 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I would STRONGLY recommend hand lapping the bore. It seems to me that hand lapping the bore should eliminate your problem. I don't recommend the Tubb system as hand lapping is MUCH more precise without removing metal that don't need to be removed-such as the Tubb system does. Hand lap your barrel and see what a difference it makes. Hand lapping affords precision due to the fact you can feel burrs or tight spots, and concentrate on those tight spots to make your barrel uniform and without burrs in the rifling.

__________________

Sometimes you earthlings REALLY amaze me!

stalkingbear is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2009, 07:52 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mrm14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 2,374
Liked 303 Times on 202 Posts
Likes Given: 27

Default

+1 on what Bear said.

__________________
mrm14 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2009, 08:23 PM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default Hand Lapping

I agree that hand lapping would be a solution. However, when you are talking about a hassle, pouring a lead slug in the barrel and coating it with an abrasive and pulling it back and forth has to be the biggest one I know of. I have done things to this barrel that every gun magazine expert would howl about. I cringed when I fired those Tubbs bullets down the bore! Yet I put 6 shots into 2 inches at 300 yds with a variable crosswind last Sun. And I wasn't really trying to hard. I will keep working at it with what I have, just wondering if anyone had any luck with the bore coating.

Alvah

P.S. If a bore could be ruined by agressive cleaning then this one would be ruined by now.

__________________
Alvah is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2009, 08:41 PM   #10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
mrm14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sacramento, California
Posts: 2,374
Liked 303 Times on 202 Posts
Likes Given: 27

Default

Well you stated it was a tack driver and if it still is your O.K. Best case senerio is you may have shortened the barrel life somewhat. It'll still shoot when the barrel is worn out but accuracy will suffer. Worst case senerio will be calling Krieger and buying a new custom barrel which will usually make your rifle even more of a tack driver.

__________________
mrm14 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
dura coat & alumma hyde mbpike Gunsmithing Forum 1 07-16-2009 10:59 PM
moly coat? dicky0331 Ammunition & Reloading 5 06-30-2009 05:04 PM
Powder Coat Service powdercoatcamo Sponsor Display 0 08-25-2008 06:38 PM
"BEAR COAT" Firearms Finishes Dgunsmith Sponsor Display 1 08-05-2007 06:09 AM
Best Bore Cleaner? PuppetMaster General Rifle Discussion 3 05-19-2007 01:03 PM